DOUBLE BROKERAGE AND DOUBLE PAYMENTS - NEED Answers...

Discussion in 'Freight Broker Forum' started by ExperienceintheBiz, Apr 26, 2020.

  1. ExperienceintheBiz

    ExperienceintheBiz Bobtail Member

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    Apr 26, 2020
    Miami, FL
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    Hello, So here is the literal case, what I want to know is how the law binds these party to each other, and if Tall Grass Freight Co can really come after the shipper or consignee and force them to double pay when their own agents got paid directly?

    We hired: Broker Brothers Logistics (a broker) to handle a truck load form point A to point B.

    The bill of lading that arrived with the cargo cargo states the following:
    Document Head: "Tall Grass Freight Co" plus their full address and phone #
    Named the broker on the left: "Broker Brothers Logistics"
    names the carrier "USA Logistics, Inc"
    and has the notation " Bill Third Party Pre-Paid Freight To: Tall Grass Freight Co"

    It would seem that Tall Grass Freight (a broker) is an agent for the carrier USA Logistics and is using Broker Brother and their direct agent, again we hired BROKER BROTHERS we were not aware this Tall Grass Company even existed.

    The main issue: We paid the invoice that Broker Brothers sent to us and now they are not paying Tall Grass Freight co who in turn has to pay the motor carrier...?
    Does Tall Grass or the Motor Carrier actually have the power to force the shipper or consignee on the bill of lading to pay a second time, even though apparently the broker used is their own agent....?

    I want to know what laws govern this is anyone can point me in that direction? thank you!!
     
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  3. buckmanmike

    buckmanmike Light Load Member

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    Jan 20, 2010
    in the country, georgia
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    Im no lawyer but if your contract is with Broker Brothers and you have fulfilled your contractural obligations you are not liable.
    Can they sue, yes, collect, let a jury of your peers decide.
    They would have to sue me and win before I double paid. Thats why brokers have bonds.
     
  4. ExperienceintheBiz

    ExperienceintheBiz Bobtail Member

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    Apr 26, 2020
    Miami, FL
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    I feel the same, wouldn't issue a whole 2nd payment unless its court ordered but Im just wondering if they actually have a case when it seems they were co-brokering? That is the first thing my boss asked the collections "why don't you tap their bond is it exhausted??" but they did not answer that. Is there a way to know or check the status of a broker's bond?
     
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  5. kidz bop

    kidz bop Light Load Member

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    I havnt read ur entire thread yet. There is a thing called fraud laws. U can visit ur law library to learn fully more aboutthat stuff. Dont talk to lawyers because talking to a lawyer while not knowung the lawis like talking to doctor or mechanic without knowing any thing. 1. There is alit of bad lawyers u wobt be able to identify them as they happen if u dont know anything. 2. There is con artist lawyers lije with any other profession. Etc.


    If u double payed when u were not suppost to yes in vast majority of states they broke some fraud laws. That much u do know. U need to identify the exact law codes that they broke. For example civil code then insert random number. It could be gov code it could be penal code. As far as driving its vehicle code. Etc.

    If u are confused about meaning of a code. The law library has books meanibg of each code in further detail by using whats called stare decisis to use previous cases to help determine meaning of a code. Sometimes there is s dispute of what the law actually is.

    Whats also worth looking into is contract laws. I know all about contract laws in my state. Im not going to waste time educate u though u need to do ur own footwork.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2020
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  6. Hyweighman

    Hyweighman Medium Load Member

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    Dec 29, 2011
    Pensacola, FL
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    I believe there is. Not sure how to check, maybe call ooida and check with them.
     
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  7. 062

    062 Road Train Member

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  8. p608

    p608 Road Train Member

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    Under certain circumstances you are liable for payment, I would suggest you contact Baxter and Bailey they are a law firm that specializes in this.
     
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  9. Midwest Trucker

    Midwest Trucker Road Train Member

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    Yes, this has happened to me before. That’s what those companies like Baxter Bailey specialize in. Coming after the shipper when the broker doesn’t pay. Even if the broker did pay, the end carrier did not get paid and the shipper is responsible for paying them. What happens most of the time is the broker ends up double paying or negotiating some sort of settlement. It depends on how much you value the customer as to whether you absorb this loss or not.

    What happens a lot is the carrier you hire for say $2500 will double broker it for say $3000 never intending to pay them. They will then ask for a fuel advance or quick pay so that they can disappear before your the wiser.

    Baxter Bailey never goes after the broker as they let on, they go after your customer every single time. I would negotiate the payment down to what you actually contracted with the first carrier to pay.

    Going through a situation like this will make you be way way more diligent in who you work with. There are huge major fraud networks especially out in California and Las Vegas. One in particular is a huge group of Armenians who specialize in this fraud. I have another thread here on TTR about it.

    Sorry for the bad news. I would recommend you get the drivers phone number, personally talk to them, make sure that Macropoint is tracking, have them send you a pic of their tractor trailer with the name on the side, and then have your customer verify it matches when they show up to load.

    I’ll just say that I used to respect Baxter Bailey and even used them a couple times. However, after seeing them come after my customer when I already paid the carrier I hired. I lost all respect. They are a dirty company who only cares about their own profit. If they really cared about doing right, they would go after the company that was hired and did the fraud, not the originating customer that has already paid the broker. One option by the way is for you and your customer to tell them to piss off. Unless it’s a high dollar load then they will just tell their customer, the 2nd carrier, that they were unable to collect. This is due to it not being cost effective for them to go to court. As I said, they only care about their own profits.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2020
  10. wichris

    wichris Road Train Member

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    It happens. We have paid twice a few times just to keep our customer out of it. Do i have much pity on a shipper that put's their loads out to multiple, who ever can do it cheapest brokers? Not a bit. If the broker you use won't take care of a problem on the brokers end they're not much use to you.
     
  11. Midwest Trucker

    Midwest Trucker Road Train Member

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    Btw... that Armenian group I mentioned are prettt #### good at what they do. They even have their own fake factoring company as well. This last time I caught it before sending them the check. They tried to say they did the load themselves and even tried to get their fake factoring company to come after us. I knew they never intended on paying the actual carrier and would never admit it was double brokered. I hung onto the $4000 for almost a year before finally the actual carrier was able to figure out who the real broker on the load was, which was us. They had been getting the same run around the entire time and lie after lie. So, long story short thankfully I didn’t pay out because I was then able to get the money to the real carrier instead of double paying. They showed me the rate con and it was for $2800 that the fake company got them to haul it for. I paid them the $2800 and all was happy. The fake company kept periodically trying to collect and after showing them their own rate con hiring the actual carrier, and proof that I paid them direct, they finally pissed off and disappeared into oblivion.

    Some real loser people in this business.
     
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