Dump Trailers, Frame Vs. Frameless

I have dumped frameless many a times with the tractor 90 degrees to the trailer. it just depends on where you have to dump.

 

This can be done, but you have to remember to lock the tractor brakes and pull the trailer to the tractor. If you lock the trailer brakes and try to pull the tractor back at this much of an angle.......the potential for the draft arm to break and flip the trailer is very high, that or you'll drag the trailer with the brakes locked to the tractor anyway

 

You need to talk with the broker about the type of work you're going to do. You also need to know what their basing the rate on.........net tonnage they expect you to be able to haul. Most brokers for OTR bulk trailer work base the rate on being able to net 23-24 ton payload. If you're going to be OTR, then you have to have a truck with a sleeper this will dictate that you go with a frameless trailer to net 23 or more tons. If you go OTR then you'll also have to worry about the Federal Bridge Laws. This will dictate that you buy a trailer at least 37 1/2 feet long........actually to be able to slide the fifth wheel for steer axle weights.........39 feet long.

A dump trailer longer than 36 feet and frame type is dangerous to dump in my opinion. Once the body is in the air.........all you have holding the body steady is the hoist at the fully raised position..........it's a 39 foot long body with one point in the front to the frame to control body sway. The frameless is not only the hoist, but the two draft arms at mid-body to control body sway while at full extension of the hoist while you pull up from the product you've dumped. The only reason I've seen long frame type trailers used today is with certain customer requirements that need a set height of the trailer dumping into a hopper. A frameless trailers exit point changes as the trailer body rises up to release the product. A frame type the trailer body pivots at the same height from the ground and can dump into a high hopper or conveyer belt without fear of the rear of the trailer catching the hopper or conveyor. The rear of a frameless trailer with low pro 22.5 tires will only be 24" off the ground when the body is fully raised. If you are dumping into a hopper and catch the end of the trailer in it and lift the weight off the tires...........you're going to damage the trailer or tip over

 

Sums it up very well. The cost mel listed and tractor always(imo) gets screwed up.
Now, gonna throw another opinion out.... Been pulling a single point suspension trailer for awhile. By far the most stable dumping trailer i have pulled(only pulled a few, others were air ride and four spring). Rides alittle hard, but who cares, doesnt get far from home.

 

I saw dump beds with built in hidrolic plow. More safely, duoming a сlay ore something like it

 

I hope nobody gets upset that I'm "beating a dead horse."

I'm just trying to get as much information as possible. This upcoming spring, I plan to buy my first Tractor and Trailer. Both, BRAND NEW. Being a newbie, I don't want to pick the wrong equipment. Not sure on the Year/Make/Model yet, but the tractor will have a sleeper.

I see a lot of contradicting opinions here...
To someone who's never dumped a trailer before, A framed trailer seems like it would be more stable. (((all truck and trailer tires stay in contact with the ground. Both truck and trailer brakes can remain locked unless the driver wants to move foward a bit)))

On a frameless, the tractor brakes remain UNlocked. The only contact points to the ground are the 5th wheel and the rear tandem tires. (because the front trailer tandems go up in the air as it lifts)

I can't help but think of it as a tripod for a photographer's camera.

On a frameless, the "tripod legs" get closer and closer the higher the trailer goes. And, one of the tripod legs has a caster wheel on it. (meaning the unlocked tractor brakes)
To me, that doesn't sound stable.
On a framed trailer, the "tripod legs" stay the same distance as the trailer get higher. And, the "tripod legs" stay locked to the ground. (meaning the locked tractor AND trailer brakes)

I'm 99.9% sure I will never go over 80,000lbs and 99.9% sure they will all be (local) loads, but like someone said, I'll know all this when I finally meet with the Broker.

One more thing, do all 5th wheels have those "pin holes" to be locked for use with a frameless trailer? Where on the 5th wheel are they located, and does anyone have a picture of the 5th wheel that has them that they can post? Would I have to buy another 5th wheel if it doesn't have those pin lock holes?

Thanks again to everyone. And again, sorry for beating the dead horse...

 

you can have them welded on or holland has the option factory installed......(thats what i have)

 

This link has some pics of different ways of blocking fifth wheels.



http://www.roundrockpublications.com/Blocking-the-Fifth-Wheel-1.pdf

 

I still vote frameless (spread axle). I think most of the "stability" most feel with a framed dump is mostly mental. I don't mean that with any disrespect I just think the difference between a trailer going over or not, has nothing to do with the number of tires on the ground. It's like you trying to hold up a telephone pole by holding the bottom, if it decides to go over your just along for the ride. A 40' box stuck way up in the air.......those 4 extra tires are pretty worthless.

Also every trailer I've seen go over was due to a load stuck or frozen in the trailer. Only one was because the driver was on unstable ground, when your dumb enough to dump on top of a salt pile no amount of rubber is keeping the trailer upright.

Framed dumps have their places, mostly for mulit-axles and guys dumping in conveyors or pits set at a certain height like Mr.Haney said.

Another plus of a frameless dump is if you get stuck I've seen guys use them to push the tractor out by moving like an inch worm.

 

i thought the same thing years ago untill i dumped a frameless...for me more stable