E-logs and Reality

Well, I deal with Iowa DOT all the time, living and operating through Iowa on a consistent basis. I have been stopped and checked when I was just bobtailing to a nearby town because the wife had the Jeep and I wanted to go get something unrelated to the truck. Not a problem. When you are not involved in commerce, the truck is just another vehicle on the road. And not subject to HOS enforcement. I would be more than willing to have an Iowa Trooper write me up on this. We do have a few Barney Fifes that have made it into the state troopers. I have dealt with quite a few of the Iowa troopers and overall they are a good bunch, that even have a sense of humor once in a while.

Keep in mind, it may also be a case of how you word your comments to them as to how they perceive it. When I was last checked, driving while off duty, I just stated I was off duty, and driving for personal use. Didn't elaborate. He went to his car, came back, and asked again why I was driving and not logging it. Again, I stated I was off duty and driving my own vehicle and was I free to leave. I never saw a more perplexed look on a trooper's face. In the end, no violation, no more questions, and I went about my business.

Just state the facts, don't hold a conversation and theorize about the ways of the world with them. Make them work for their money and prove you are in violation. Many times, it is the driver's mouth that causes the problem that could have been avoided. I only answer direct questions with direct answers. No commentary, no what-if discussions, etc. My little green DOT manual is about 1.5 feet from my seat. Already have pages tabbed for such things, and a copy of the FMCSA interpretation of these issues on my laptop.

The FMCSA interpretation of 395.8 leaves no confusion.... it is online for all to read.... if you are unladen (i.e, empty), and are doing nothing for the motor carrier or under their direction, and driving out of convenience to seek lodging, parking, restaurant, etc..... you can leave the customer property and be considered OFF DUTY. If Barney wants to put his badge on the line over that one, I have no problem helping him make a fool of himself. Especially in front of a judge. Nothing like the pleasure of shooting down the credibility of a LEO in front of a judge.

And to address your final comment.... no it is not non-compliance to drive while off duty. As long as the conditions set by the FMCSA are met. Even with an Elog. Which does measure compliance. And I am compliant with the meaning of the regulations. Keep in mind, LEO's are not lawyers and they are people who view things within the world they operate. Most, except those that have been in the game a long time, have no better understanding of the legal interpretations of the regulations than anyone else. Especially on something as remote as this regulation. It isn't like they encounter these situations every day. Very few DOT enforcement officers could even do a log book properly if they had to. It is just as much your responsibility to know and understand the regulations as it is the officers.

 

So, if I drop off a load(now unladen) I can go to line 1 and drive home if I'm out of hours? Is there a time frame? Say 30 min, from home... 2 hours from home... 7 hours from home.... 14 hours from home. (just what IS a short distance... 100 miles seems short to me). I also don't see anything requiring you to be bobtailing.

This doesn't make sense. I could in theory, drop off a load, go to line 1(drive home) then be dispatched from home again and start on duty again. Doing so could give me 100+ hours actual to work with...

Then, how would you log the drive home? Just off duty, then a new location?

Thanks guys, I'm gonna drive my companies safety person nuts with this... it's gonna be great!

 

YES! There is no set limit on the distance. Read the reg and the interpretation yourself and see. It is purely subjective. It is not feasible to do so all the time, but I have gone upwards of 185 miles to the house.... all off duty driving. I did a reset while at home and the start time was when I went off duty at my last location. And YES, you could be drop the load, then you would be unladen and legal to drive off duty and go home.... trailer or bobtail. Once you get notice from the carrier to move somewhere for their purpose, like heading to pick up a load, then you would be required to do the regular line 3 driving. The two locations from which you dropped the last load, and starting actual line 3 have nothing to do with each other. There is nothing in the regs that states you have to start line 3 where you last ended a line 3 or line 4.


Now, all this being said, assumes that the truck is not owned by the carrier. If they are paying the bills, they have a right to limit how their equipment is used. Since I pay the bills, I have the right to say how my truck is used off duty. If any carrier wants to dispute it with me, all I have to do is call my son at the IRS and have him initiate an investigation of the carrier to determine if their O/O contractors should be classified as actual employees, because the carrier is limiting the use of my personal equipment. No carrier in their right mind wants to play ball that hard, even a mega carrier. I pay for unladen (or some call bobtail) insurance for times when I am not involved in commerce and am using the truck for personal use, so their jewels are not dangling out in the breeze. So, as the owner, I get to have two government agencies go after the carrier. What a Country!!!

 

This is awesome... ! I have found the loophole allowing me all the hours I need. As far as feasibility, I could do this 3 or 4 times a week as my home is right in my normal lane and a major east/west cross.

Now to break it to safety...

 

Legal ? Yes . Permitted by your carrier ? That's another story .

 

Some of us remember a former member , Mike Millard . Mike was the FMCSA inspector that was chosen as Inspector Of The Year in 2008 .
Mike stated pulling an empty trailer is unladen unless the trailer itself is the cargo on the BOL . If you delivered a load of goods with a van , got the BOL signed and are empty you can use PC off duty .
I'll take Mike's interpretation of FMCSR over anybody else's any day .

 

don't know who mike is. but i'll listen to any bear. they don't act like a cop with an attitude.

 

Because it is an exploitative interpretation.

I don't know if I am missing something in the way you wrote it or not, but I would think that if you are pulling an empty trailer, and being paid for those miles, even if only from being re-dispatched from there, you could not claim PC.

Yeah, you may be able to log off duty and jaunt "xx" miles to home or someplace else and not use driving time, and still be dispatched from home and start driving from that point as a loophole.

But as far as I see it, if you are using personal conveyance to reposition yourself (dispatching from new location) and not burn hours, and/or are being paid for it one way or another, the point becomes moot.

Sorry, you can still fall asleep at the wheel and kill somebody joyriding to your house with your unladen 32,000 lb. rig. Should that happen, I'm sure a lawyer would have a field day with it, especially if you are outside the window of legal hours of service.

 

I have bob tailed using my truck to the store and stuff and never even logged it... now if i was to get a call about a load and accepted it then im legaly on duty from the point of dispatch and would have to log it and start my 14 hr day.. that is a loop hole that favors the HOS.. Once you answer the phone or if your a company driver or L/P hit the accept on your qualcomm or say yes on the phone it starts your day.. you cant bobtail to where ever your trailer is or pull it as off duty..Thats from my DOT bear friend who comes to the house to do the Audits for me..

 

Apparently you CAN have a trailer... it just needs to be empty or unladen. This is huge!