E-logs and Reality

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by Red Hot Mess, Dec 30, 2011.

  1. shredfit1

    shredfit1 Road Train Member

    Nov 24, 2008
    Your getting me wrong, I'm saying that perhaps the driver should not be punished... That is, unless the driver intended to kill someone with the truck and was paid to kill...

    Of course, in our blame someone society... this will not happen any time soon.

    On the other hand, the driver could also choose not to be pushed by the buyer/shipper. Remember, the driver doesn't need to be a puppet either.
    Stump Thanks this.
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  3. Stump

    Stump Heavy Load Member

    Jan 27, 2009
    Modesto CA
    My point is, if saftey was the real reason for all the new laws, after the saftey records the last few years have stated we are at our safest we have been ever, then the goverment would be makeing laws for the whole Transportation world, not just one spoke in the wheel.
  4. Injun

    Injun Road Train Member

    May 15, 2010
    West o' the Big Crick
    Some of them don't kick down to the drive line until the truck reaches 5mph for 5 minutes or travels 2 miles nonstop. You can move all day long at 5mph and it will leave you off duty. But you have to place yourself off duty at the first stop and check it each time you come to a stop.

    Ask me how I know this.

    Another way is (if available) just place yourself off duty-driving.
  5. shredfit1

    shredfit1 Road Train Member

    Nov 24, 2008
    Bingo.... Then the conclusion MUST be, it's not about safety.... and NEVER has been about safety.

    There isn't a shred of evidence that states HOS regs have improved safety.

    I've made this statement several times, and I've even seen the DOT guys here lurk in the thread but never post. This could tell us something:

    1) They have been searching for evidence that HOS regs HAVE improved safety via DOT collected data... and found none.

    2) They know it isn't about safety and never has been.

    3) They have been told to strictly enforce HOS regs... for public safety by their superiors, and with some research... have found it to be about revenue not safety.
    Stump Thanks this.
  6. SmoothShifter

    SmoothShifter Defender of the Driveline

    Sep 10, 2010
    Feura Bush, NY
    I wouldn't say the drivers are Satan, nor are the shippers in the right for asking someone to "get it there by xxxx..."

    It's a system that has evolved over the years. Shippers are accustomed to folks "pushing" (breaking the law) and now..... it is a given. And, I would bet, not as well compensated for.

    Okay, fair enough. You would have to prove that the shipper did not give you enough time between pickup and delivery to legally transport the load. That means the shipper would have to:

    • know your available hours before arriving (ie: did you just drive all night to get there for the pickup?)
    • where you were at in the middle of your work week when you arrived for pickup
    • how many miles to the destination broken up by 11 hour driving blocks and 10 hour breaks at a set average mph
    • pending inclement weather if applicable
    Shippers don't have that mentality. If they need someone to go coast to coast in 48 hours and they can get one guy to do it for $4000 and it will cost them $4800 to hire a team - they're going to use the cheaper option.

    All they care about is if it makes it there on time, for the cheapest option.

    Next time a shipper "pushes" you, get it in writing. Print this and get it signed.


    This is to certify that I have full knowledge that Mr. Stump will be breaking hours of service and risking highway safety to meet my scheduled delivery appointment on __/__/____ at the cheapest possible cost.

    I assume 1/2 responsibility in the event that Mr. Stump should get into a fatigue related accident during the course of said trip when he is driving past the Federal Mandated Hours of Service.

    I am also aware that I have not allotted enough travel time for a single driver and a single truck to complete this trip in a safe and responsible manner.


    _____________________ aka, "the Pusher"


    See how ridiculous that sounds? :biggrin_2554:
    Been said before, it's a matter of intent. If you asked me to kill someone for money, and I didn't get caught, I guess we would both be "in the clear"


    I would have some more money. :biggrin_25522:

    It's not okay. Proving it would be difficult, though. Most shippers would profess 100% ignorance. You bite the ditch doing them a favor, don't expect them to "have your back"

    Same with dispatchers and anyone else. Watch how fast they backpedal. See that bus coming?

    Stump Thanks this.
  7. Cowpie1

    Cowpie1 Road Train Member

    Nov 25, 2008
    Kellogg, IA
    You do have a real problem if you allow any shipper, buyer, receiver to push you down the road. You do not have to haul their stuff. No one, and I mean NO ONE, can "force" me to do anything. If you feel forced to do something, it says more about you chasing the almighty dollar. You just want the government to beat up the bully on the playground for you because you do not have the guts to stand up against him yourself. But when the government gets involved, they never do so benignly. They always extract their pound of flesh in the long run. Beware of unintended consequences.
    07-379Pete Thanks this.
  8. Injun

    Injun Road Train Member

    May 15, 2010
    West o' the Big Crick
    Good point, CowPie. However. You do that enough times and you won't have a job. Good luck finding another when the boss trashes your DAC. He/she tends to frown on refusing to haul loads.

    The pressure to move comes from every direction. The pressure to sit only comes from one.
  9. dieselbear

    dieselbear Road Train Member

    Oct 18, 2008
    I post when I have something to say. Just because I read a thread doesn't mean I think whatever you can think up. 1) I have no idea what data some bean counter takes and analyzes. 2) It is about safety. So the guy I had the other day that was well over 30 hours since his last qualified rest that couldn't keep his eyes open, isn't about SAFETY? When I walked back to his truck 3 minutes after I stopped him, to get trailer information and the driver is slumped over the wheel, it's has nothing to do with safety? So I guess if he ran over your family it would be ok? Or better yet he run into your truck on the interstate? 3) I have always enforced the law the same. If your in violation, you get wrote up on the inspection report. Depending on the time over the allowed hours determined if I wrote a ticket or a warning. You know what you are supposed to do as a driver when it relates to HOS. No different from what you are to do with complying with the vehicle regulations. If they are in the green book, then you shall comply. What research are you quoting? If you found specific research, you should post it here for all to see.
    LaBubba and Stump Thank this.
  10. Okieron

    Okieron Crusty Okie

    Dec 23, 2009
    muskogee, ok
    you know the people that knock e-logs and HOS are the same ones that have points for violations. and Injun your right if you keep turning loads down they will fire you, but even Swift and I know this as a fact will not force a load on you if you can't make legally. all you have to say is I don't have the hours and all is fine we'll get another driver! no problem. out of all my time I have only driven out of hours once and I would have taken the penalty as my wife was hurt and I needed to be home asap. DB go get them no warnings on HOS violation write them up and make it hurt that's more work for me!
  11. MSheets

    MSheets Light Load Member

    Sep 2, 2011
    Granite Falls,NC
    Refusing to haul a load is not the same as refusing to haul a load illegally. NO ONE CAN make you run illegal. When I have to run with a load that's over weight I have them put it on my PeopleNet that way my butt is covered if I'm in a wreck. I will not run when out of hours except to find a safe place to park and I make the reason in the remark section!:biggrin_25513:
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