ELD Editing Questions

Technically, the circumstances where you can be off duty at a shipper or receiver are few and far between. You have to be free to do whatever you want to do, and by definition this means leaving. If you are not able to leave, then your only option is sleeper berth.

 

Where in the regs does it actually state this?

 

395.2 definitions; 5) All time loading or unloading a commercial motor vehicle, supervising, or assisting in the loading or unloading, attending a commercial motor vehicle being loaded or unloaded, remaining in readiness to operate the commercial motor vehicle, or in giving or receiving receipts for shipments loaded or unloaded;

 

The FMCSA issued updated guidance on this back in 2013. Being able to leave the facility is not required in order to go off duty. That being said, Sleeper berth is still probably the better choice just in case you do get stuck there for 7 or more hours and want to take advantage of the split sleeper rules.

Here is a quote from the fmcsa guidance.

"Through the revision of the regulatory guidance, FMCSA makes clear that the motor carrier need not provide formal guidance, either verbal or written, to drivers with regard to the specific times and locations where rest break may be taken. The revised guidance also emphasizes that periods of time during which the driver is free to stop working, and engage in activities of his/her choosing, may be recorded as off-duty time, irrespective of whether the driver has the means or opportunity to leave a particular facility or location. All previously issued guidance on this matter should be disregarded if inconsistent with today's notice."

Here is a link to the fmcsa webpage with the updated guidance.

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

What I posted was from the FMCSA. What you're quoting is when the FMCSA modified the HOS to include a 30 minute break. I told our safety officer that we couldn't do 30 minutes off duty because you can't go off duty. He said they modified the regulations as you shared. But nothing regarding the ability to log off duty changes the definition of loading or unloading. Unless you are in the sleeper or able to leave, you are at the ready while the truck is being loaded or unloaded. That is on duty

 

Under the new guidance, you do not have to be in the sleeper; simply able to pursue activities of your own choosing, which doesn't mean leaving or being able to leave. It could be sitting there playing with your phone or reading the paper.

If you are actively working by loading, unloading, or supervising such processes, getting your bills, or other work-related activities, then yes, you have to be on duty. Even the day cabs at my previous job carried the standard letter about being relieved of duty so we could log off duty. Inspections that I have had in multiple states over the last decade also would seem to confirm this since I have never received a warning or a ticket for any of my time logged off duty at the customer.

 

On-duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:

(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;

(2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;

(3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time;

(4) All time in or on a commercial motor vehicle, other than:

(i) Time spent resting in or on a parked vehicle, except as otherwise provided in of this subchapter;

(ii) Time spent resting in a sleeper berth; or

(iii) Up to 3 hours riding in the passenger seat of a property-carrying vehicle moving on the highway immediately before or after a period of at least 7 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth;

(5) All time loading or unloading a commercial motor vehicle, supervising, or assisting in the loading or unloading, attending a commercial motor vehicle being loaded or unloaded, remaining in readiness to operate the commercial motor vehicle, or in giving or receiving receipts for shipments loaded or unloaded;

The key is if you are releived of duty or not. This is satisfied by the letter that most carriers place in the permit book. As the law is written, you can rest in or even on top of your truck if you wanted and still log off duty if you were not doing any work related to the loading or unloading.

 

And what part of that says if one can't leave the premises one is on-duty?

 

In the original post the person said they’ve been team driving. If that’s the case then one of them should already be off duty/sleeper for a while when the truck is parked for the person driving to start a 34.

So let’s say one person is in the sleeper for 10 hours. The driver parks to start their 34. 24 hours later the other driver has completed their 34 and the truck can roll while the person who was driving when the truck was parked can finish their 34 with 10 hours in the bunk while the truck is moving. That could be where the confusion came in when their log was edited, I don’t know.

And if you’re not actually on the dock or getting paperwork then I’d log off duty and save your hours.

 

Lots of good info in the thread. The OP should not confuse the discussion between very experienced drivers about "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" discussing the regs with most drivers doing wildly different things at a customer while getting loaded/unloaded. Yes, the regs and official guidance is the most important element in the thread, as this is a question about regs. I wish there was some mechanism whenever a new thread is posted where the writer had to check a box that indicates if the question is to be answered using the regs, best practices of professionals, or what can you get away with in a normal situation. Those are very different things. Many drivers never distinguish between what the trainer they first had did and the regs. They equate what they do with what everyone else does, if they are not some reckless weirdo, Because driving is usually a solitary activity and each of us is king of our truck we get very direct and insistent, like I get often. There is a saying about certain scientists "never in doubt, but frequently in error." I used to be a regulation nerd and I have learned a few things from the experts on TTR. I gave up my regulation nerd t-shirt years ago and defer to others. A real expert can explain his view and show you why another view isn't correct. The regulations are published and it's just a matter of reading them until you understand them. While cops and DOT officers can be wrong about the regs, so passing an inspection doesn't mean you are legal, some of them are wrong and also operate with a short-hand version of some of the regulations.