Epiphany on modulation and swing

Discussion in 'CB Radio Forum' started by ramkatral, May 20, 2012.

  1. ramkatral

    ramkatral Heavy Load Member

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    Dec 27, 2010
    Tryon, NC
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    So, I've begun my reading and learning for my license. I think I finally figured these two things out, and why I though my radio was putting out more than 4 watts stock.

    You pros correct me if I'm wrong it confirm if I'm right.

    I was playing with the power adjustments I had installed in my radio for the linear. I realized that adjusting my dead key didn't stop it from swinging higher than the KL 203 was rated for. I noticed when I dropped the setting for the dynamike, it stopped swinging so high and everyone said I got a lot clearer. That's when I got it on modulation. The mike gain is causing over modulation with the power from the amp and setting off my antenna warning. That explained to me what the swing actually is and why cb shops whistle or use a high pitched tone to test swing. It's not actually more power, it's just more modulation. I now see why some people think cutting the limiter is cool, because it swings a meter more. But it's not actually more power. It's louder and probably sounds like crap, but the carrier never increases, so range doesn't increase. Am I right?

    I figured out kinda what it looks like in a scope. Bad over modulation would have the big flat top peaks, right? And it would bleed over to other channels because the modulation in the wave is so extreme.

    Finally, I think I understand the theory behind increasing S readings. So, fit each half S increase at any given range, you need to double the carrier power, correct? As in. If you were reading me at S2, and I wanted you to read me at S4, I'd have to turn my 4 watt radio into a 64 watt radio. If I then wanted to be heard at S5, I'd need to turn that radio into a 256 watt radio. Am I on the right track? If so, people really are getting scammed by peak and tune jobs for a few extra watts. You would hardly notice. And getting huge range gains would take a whole helluva lot of wattage. More than I ever realized.

    And even if you have a big 45 watt swing on your radio, that's only if you have a really loud high pitched sound. Average talking likely would swing that high, would it? Meaning your actual average swing would be probably in the 20s.
     
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  3. Big_m

    Big_m Heavy Load Member

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    Central Maryland
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    I think you just got it! Most radio operators will learn or accept the real facts. That's why you hear so many crappy sounding radios on the air. And it's really sad to think that Drivers paid good money to sound so bad. Over modulated, peaked, power mic and add a amp. Can't get any worst. If nothing else you've already learned how to have one of the best sounding radios on the air.
     
    ramkatral Thanks this.
  4. kc0iv

    kc0iv Light Load Member

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    Mar 31, 2010
    Parkville, Mo
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    I do believe you got the idea.

    As far as "S" meter readings go it all depends on the "S" meter. There is a good discussion on "S" meters at:

    http://www.seed-solutions.com/gregordy/Amateur Radio/Experimentation/SMeterBlues.htm


    Leon
    (kc0iv)
     
    Big_m and ramkatral Thank this.
  5. ghz24

    ghz24 Bobtail Member

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    Mar 25, 2012
    peoria, IL
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    I agree you got it mostly right except I'm pretty sure modulation higher than the carrier clips the bottom of the wave, the top can go higher the bottom part can only go down to the depth of your carrier.
     
  6. ramkatral

    ramkatral Heavy Load Member

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    Dec 27, 2010
    Tryon, NC
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    Thanks for the read. That helped a lot. The S units on different radios may actually be less decibels apart, depending on what radio it is. But 6 decibels would be the standard, right?
     
  7. ramkatral

    ramkatral Heavy Load Member

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    Dec 27, 2010
    Tryon, NC
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    What's real funny is I now sit and listen to the radio and can hear modulation problems. Guys will tell someone they sound good when they sound like total ###.
     
  8. country29

    country29 Medium Load Member

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    Feb 27, 2010
    Arkansas
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    does this fall under the lines of what they say about opinions? lol I guess if they have never heard a properly tuned radio, that over-modulated pos sounds good to them.:biggrin_25525:
     
  9. kc0iv

    kc0iv Light Load Member

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    As the chart shows "S" meters are not linear. As the article says " Values such as 4 dB, 5 dB, and the most common 6 dB per S Unit have been talked about. In the end, no standard really exists, and even if it did, very few radios implement it."


    Leon
    (kc0iv)
     
  10. rabbiporkchop

    rabbiporkchop Road Train Member

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    Wapwallopen, Pa
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    Perfect modulation looks exactly like my avatar. It doesn't get any better than that.
     
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  11. saintdel

    saintdel Bobtail Member

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    Jun 14, 2012
    Los Angeles, CA
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    And suddenly from darkness came light! Congratulations! I know that epiphany lit up your mind. If you're into radio, getting your ham license isn't just snooty intellectual BS, it's real world practical. Of course, the loss to you is in leaving behind long cherished notions about big swinging s meters etc because, well, uninformed as they were, for a while you found happiness and satisfacton there.
     
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