Ethanol in the gasoline
Discussion in 'Tanker, Bulk and Dump Trucking Forum' started by GasHauler, Jan 30, 2012.
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Yeah, we started way back in the late 80's too but we run the Ethanol in the winter only. Plus the company was giving away octane. Then someone in headquarters figured they could save money by just refining gasoline to a lower octane then use the Ethanol to bring it into spec's. That was a real pain. Then when the rack crashed you had some real figuring to do. They would ship only two grades of course ,regular and premium, but the regular was sub-grade octane and you had to add just the right amount to get the octane and 10% by volume. The premium was left alone. I don't know what they are doing now with the ethanol running all year long.
We had a lot of problems because we loaded from a common carrier tank farm. The problem was getting their computers to talk with ours through old broke down phone lines. Any bad storms that would come by and you's be hoping to get loaded without the rack crashing. Our system was designed by our own tech's and it cost in the millions but it did everything you'd want to run a terminal. As soon as a driver carded in the system would check the drivers driving license. med card, truck insurance, registration, bond if another company, if the dealer had the money for the load, if the driver was ok to load and not suspended, and all the accounting and inventory for our product. Anything you can think of that's required to haul gasoline was checked as soon as the driver entered his or her pin #,truck number, and the load number. But gets some lightning strikes around while you're loading any you're praying the whole thing does not go down. -
pathfinder1361 Thanks this.
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There's another problem you might have noticed too and that's the power loss and the lower MPG. I would like them to find a better oxygenate that doesn't rob you of fuel mileage and destroy parts. Plus cleans the air too.pathfinder1361 and 25(2)+2 Thank this. -
Not sure about the clean air reasoning, but its subsidized (or was at the onset) "x" amount per gallon sold, can't remember the exact $. Its been all 10% blend here for 5+ yrs, no problems.
pathfinder1361 Thanks this. -
I don't notice much difference on fuel mileage with 10%, the E-85 sells for less and gets lower mileage per gallon, the cost per mile can be less or can be more, and performance is pretty good in the flex fuel engines. I now have 3 3800 Series 2 GM engines in full size sedans, and after running the blend for awhile, go plenty fast enough to get you in trouble. They run around 30 mpg on trips in rolling terrain.
Adding oxygen to the fuel reduces the amount of hydrocarbons, and lowers the content of energy. MTBE and ETBE gas had reduced energy content compared to gas which didn't have either and probably premium gas where the engine wasn't tuned up to use it had less power per gallon delivered by the engine. Most engineers say premium gas should only be used when needed by the engine to stop detonation.
The best quality gas (and fuel) in the upper Midwest comes out of the Twin Cities area refineries and doesn't see a pipeline after that at least not long distance, from what I have been told. I don't talk to any fuel haulers in person, so I don't know the procedures for blending and I only hauled hot asphalt cement for a short time, never got any fuel runs during that time so I have no knowledge from experience of delivering gas.pathfinder1361 Thanks this. -
They run lower volatility gas in the summer and warmer months and higher volatility during colder months so the engines will start easily. I'm not sure what they do down south or where it doesn't stay cold for as long. That might be another reason for using certain gas and fuel around here.
I mentioned MTBE and ETBE before, the chemical oxygenates caused lots of groundwater pollution, based on that,all oxygenates were probably hard on containment. Those two chemicals were banned for that reason, and politics got involved. Ethanol plants are at least mostly the only new refineries being built in this country, and are dispersed well enough that a hurricane won't disrupt supplies much. They also had investment from feedstock producers, and some of those producers got burned and lost their investment, but most of those plants are producing now, even some that had been shut down for years. Vera-sun was the largest producer that went bankrupt. Valero petroleum bought several of their plants.
You've talked about vapor recovery before, too, and that will be pushed very hard. BTW, thanks again for the informative posts.pathfinder1361 Thanks this. -
Cellulosic ethanol has been tried but since I'm not running US 18 west to western Iowa much anymore, I don't know if it is still going. I haven't kept up on it.
The subsidy fights are continuing.
If you can't keep water out of the gas, the ethanol absorbs it and turns to alcohol and water mix and separates out. If the tanks were clean and lines were new, (new installations), there is no problem and keeping positive pressure in the tanks keeps water from coming in with air infiltration.
I'm guessing there was a water problem at the Magellan tank farm.pathfinder1361 Thanks this. -
Down in the western southern states vapor pressure plays a big role. They want the gasoline to emit less vapors into the air when it's hot. Then you get each city and county involved what they want and it becomes a shippers nightmare. I know we had a load go into a station down in Laughlin NV once that came out of CA and was a better burning fuel plus it met CARB restrictions which were more than Clark Co. When Clark County Air Resource Board found out about that they made us pump the tank dry and flush all the lines clean and replace it it with the NV gasoline. Talk about people jumping up on their soap box and showing their power. It was a real waste of time and money for us but what can you do?
MTBE is much better for your car and for the industry. But just like you said it has some problems getting down into the groundwater. It migrated so fast that they found the MTBE in the groundwater only 6 months after they started using it. That's fast. So of course they had to dumped and go to ethanol which they hate because it's not their product. MTBE was a refined at the oil companies refineries. They do get a large tax brake for ethanol but the distribution can and is still is a big problem. I always use San Diego as an example. There you have no water access, no rail access, and only truck access. That's been some time ago so they may have put a dedicated pipeline in because that's the only answer. The last time I figure their need it was around a 100 trucks a day to keep the terminal going. That's very expensive. It's good talking to you too. -
I just use SHELL for all of my yard tools. Along with a fuel stabilizer. I've never drained the gas tanks at the end of the season, and I've never had a problem with any of them.
All of my two cycle tools plainly state in the instructions NOT to use gasoline with ethanol in them.
So I guess the big question is, what do we do when the eco-weenies force all gas to have ethanol. . .Marksteven Thanks this.
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