flatbed vs. dry van

Discussion in 'Flatbed Trucking Forum' started by FloridaDudester, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. T One T

    T One T Bobtail Member

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    All miles, deadhead, loaded, personal conveyance. Hub miles basically. Flatbed, and if you are savvy with negotiating, and are invite right lane at the right times, vans can get that as well.
     
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  3. T One T

    T One T Bobtail Member

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    Jun 25, 2019
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    1.75 is representative of all miles. Hub miles if you will. Includes deadhead, loaded, and even Personal Conveyance.
    Flat bedding can get more per mile and even some accesorial pay like tarp pay, but a savvy van driver can negotiate for better rates especially from the right lanes at the right time and most importantly the right attitude and approach.
    To sum it up, the 1.75/2250 really puts the perspective on what a true income could be based over a true and honest 12 month cycle.
    One can easily claim a 5, 6, even a 7K dollar week and 4000 miles, and those are wondrous times, but in reality its the sustainability of those weeks that fades. there are 52 weeks we have to work with, and taking a three day weekend twice takes us down to 51 weeks. take a three days off every month and you've lost 5 weeks of running. so those 3000 mile weeks get reduced to 2250 mile average over the year. The low 1.75 presumed rate average for all turned miles helps to account for the great revenue weeks as well as the lower revenue weeks.
     
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  5. Bean Jr.

    Bean Jr. Road Train Member

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    I think that many owner/operators will tell others that what really is there best week, ie that 3,500 $2.25 a mile is their typical week.

    We know that it's not true, but try proving it!
     
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  6. FloridaDudester

    FloridaDudester Light Load Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. that makes total sense and sounds realistic to me now that you've said that.
     
  7. HaulIt

    HaulIt Bobtail Member

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    I certainly do not have the experience as the other guys do but I can't get past this...So you net 800 per day before you wake? That's like 200-300k per year net.

    Why would someone possibly think about trucking on such a small level with such vast business experience and resources?

    You should be asking these very gracious top-dogs on here about buying a small fleet with multiple trucks and hands that are already experienced. There are many small fleets that would be ripe for buy-out right now. You could start running instead of this crawl that's being described.

    Like Blair said even better deals around the corner.


    Besides all that...best advice I've seen on this very helpful forum is to work for someone to get your very basic experience prior to going all in. Just makes sense when your starting at zero.
     
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  8. FloridaDudester

    FloridaDudester Light Load Member

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    I only count 5 days a week. "vast resources" is an overstatement. I do earn a very good living, but I have what I have because of being in a successful little small business and the ability and maybe wisdom to invest in income properties, as a landlord.

    Most people would not do anything else if they had my situation. I recognize that I don't need to go into trucking and maybe I shouldn't, given that I could have an easier life by just showing up to my office and enjoying my freedom of time. It's difficult for people who truck to make ends meet to see why anybody would go into driving who doesn't need to and I do understand. Sometimes I make decisions for myself that don't make sense to others and logically, just don't make a lot of sense, period...

    My motivation isn't only money, although I won't do it if, before I start in the next few months,I determine it really is throwing good money after bad. On the other hand, I am a bit unusual and am somewhat of an adventurer and calculated risk taker. I feel its something in my system, I want to do. If you knew me well, you would understand why I do what I do. I am unsettled, I suppose. I like challenges and I've always been drawn to things that take me away from my reality and occupy my thoughts.

    It's unfortunate that most people who go into trucking are under capitalized for what they want to do. I won't have that problem, starting with one truck and a good income stream from outside. Some people as why. I ask, why not?
     
  9. FloridaDudester

    FloridaDudester Light Load Member

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    The part about working for someone else comes up often. I've answered that in earlier posts. I have no doubt I can handle learning the ropes OJT using my 55 years of skills and common sense. Others may disagree. It's not brain surgery, but care has to be taken for certain.

    As for buying out a small fleet, its not a terrible idea, but I've bought other small businesses in the past. I think I've bought 4 of them. In 1 case, it was a print shop / sign business, and customer of mine who was going out of business for retirement. I knew the owner and she was going to close shop and basically just abandon what she had built over many years. I offered her 30k cash if she would sell me her business and stay on for a (rather low) wage to teach me the buisness for a few months. The only reason I can look at it as a success is because I bought it really cheap. As time went on I didn't like that business, enough to retool and spend big bucks to evolve with the changing digital environment ( a whole story by itself). I got my money out of operating it for about two years as I let natural attrition take its course.

    The other three businesses were all in the interest of adding to my existing "copier and service" business. I simply bought the customer list at a steeply undervalued price that I offered. Those folks were going on of business or moving on in one way or the other. They all worked out because I knew precisely what I was getting. Even then, some disappointments ensued, which is another story also.

    I've learned over many years that buying someone else's business, doesn't come with a fresh slate. While that can be good, It is a sword that cuts both ways. In terms of trucking, the value derived from buying an existing business, would be presumed {to be} the value of the assets, aka trucks and trailors, the customer base and any existing infrastructure (employees, drivers, dispatchers, etc..).
    Anybody understanding this would want to consider the cost of buying "the business" vs. the cost of building a similar business and taking into account the time it would take. After all, time has a dollar value to most of us. Then, that must be considered in the context of personal goals and objectives versus the risks of buying someones business, the existing market conditions and how that business in its current form fits into that market. Using rental property vernacular. is the business a fixer upper or one that will make money as it is, without pouring more money into it. It is possible to buy someones problem ridden business that has been window dressed to look very appealing. For instance, the trucks could have had a lack of maintenance, do to an economic (within that business) down turn or the owner's realization that he could defer maintenance to the next guy who owned the trucks. It is entirely possible that the customer contracts are riddled with problems and are either not profitable for the present market, are not going to stay around, or were born out of great relationships with the owner, such that when he or she is gone, those customers will also go away. These are just a few of the challenges of buying someone else's business.

    Don't get me wrong, buying an existing business can be very good, particularly if the buyer knows the industry particularly well. That said, The circumstances under which I would consider buying someone else's business, would be this; I would analyze three years tax returns for the business. I would never consider anything that wasn't on the tax return as the truth. I would want to see ELD logs simply to verify answers to some of the questions I had answered. Much can be learned from down time. I would want to see maintenance logs to determine any trends that exist, validate maintenance costs per mile of the fleet per records, read contracts (without names of course and after signing a non-disclosure agreement with the seller), call a few customers, with the sellers permission, to determine the likelihood of future business, future additional loads or the possibility of a decline in loads.

    There is so much to consider when doing due diligence in consideration for buying a business. Given that and the certainty that I would have assume more financial risk than I am willing to, that is not my preferred way to enter the trucking business. I would consider it, if I felt the upside far outweighed the downside (given my abilities to run a business), and risk of an expensive mistake. The question of an exit strategy would come into play for me. At 55, I'm no longer looking at a 10 year or even a 5 year plan, necessarily. I'm thinking more in terms of a commitment of at least a year, and hopefully enough satisfaction from trucking that it becomes a long term thing. Yet, whatever I do, I want to have a plan in place for getting out when its time, whether in a year from when I begin or 7 years down the road.
     
  10. Old Iron

    Old Iron Road Train Member

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    Farming is easy when your a thousand miles away and a pencil is your plow.
    Teddy Roosevelt.

    By all means if this is what you want to do. Then go for it.

    The average "Owner Operator" anymore is a guy that has worked years for a large company and has a number instead of a name. After years of being conditioned that "miles are money", they go out and buy/lease purchases a truck. Then instead of being their own boss, they lease it right back to the same company they worked for. Said company handles everything right down to the trailer. The customers, accounts, invoicing, collections, payroll, licensing, ECT. Basically every single thing any other business owner controls, and has the opportunity to excel with. All so that the guy can get on down the road. Cause "miles are money". Lol.
    Not a whole lot different than a kid owning his bike on a paper route.

    Sure there is exceptions. Landstar and others you pick and choose what, how, where, and when off load boards. But the vast majority of "owner operators" your gonna get advise from are not very different from a company driver.

    If your truly a guy that can beat down doors, hustle and make things happen for himself than you got more edge than the average driver that wants to drive his own truck.
    Let's be honest. Specialized operations not withstanding. It ain't that hard to push a truck down the road...Look at the complete morons you see doing it every day getting from point A to point B.
    Doing it profitable, knowing the gauntlet of regulations, knowing enough about mechanics to keep the wheels turning is another story.

    And remember most that do this long term don't do it for the money.
    When times get tough and things start falling apart if you don't love it your not going to last.
    Nights, weekends, doing paperwork on the holidays. If your a 9 to 5er. It's gonna be an eye opener.
     
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  11. FloridaDudester

    FloridaDudester Light Load Member

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  12. FloridaDudester

    FloridaDudester Light Load Member

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    I really hope I develop a love for it.
     
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  13. Good bloom

    Good bloom Light Load Member

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    Aug 13, 2017
    Chesterfield, MO
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    at the end same thing
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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