Framed end dump weight, aluminum vs steel body

abyliks · Mar 30, 2023

Can still get 102k on 5,

PBEtrucking · Mar 31, 2023

abyliks said: ↑

Can still get 102k on 5,
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Really? What wheelbase is needed to pull an overweight permit like that in NY? Or is it going to require a spread axle setup?

abyliks · Mar 31, 2023

I worked at a certain company with green trucks that I pulled 40’ closed and spread with, honestly I can’t remember what the lengths were but I thought you could get the permit for the shorter ones too,

W923 · Mar 31, 2023

Best I can do for you on weights
31300 empty with my all aluminum 26’ full frame heavy spec truck it’s only a 2 axle trailer but a heavy built one.
36500 with my clement 24’ fully frame steel trailer also a 2 axle
28460 with a mac 34-39’ frameless that I borrowed from my neighbor also a 2 axle trailer.
My truck tractor weighs roughly 18900
Ar steel is the way to go for what you want and at least ar400 generally the tub style trailers are much tougher for the same empty weight but maybe you wouldn’t be able to fit enough….we can only run 80k with a long dump and the short dumps between 72-76

PBEtrucking · Apr 1, 2023

W923 said: ↑

Best I can do for you on weights
31300 empty with my all aluminum 26’ full frame heavy spec truck it’s only a 2 axle trailer but a heavy built one.
36500 with my clement 24’ fully frame steel trailer also a 2 axle
28460 with a mac 34-39’ frameless that I borrowed from my neighbor also a 2 axle trailer.
My truck tractor weighs roughly 18900
Ar steel is the way to go for what you want and at least ar400 generally the tub style trailers are much tougher for the same empty weight but maybe you wouldn’t be able to fit enough….we can only run 80k with a long dump and the short dumps between 72-76
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Awesome W923! That's exactly the kind of real world numbers I was looking for and it helps that your tractor is #### near the same weight as the 379 I just picked up. I guess I'm going to have to call the DOT guys Monday when they open up and figure out how heavy I can pull a type R permit for on a tandem and what I need spec wise to do it. If I really can get 102 on 5 axles vs 107 on 6, that 5k of difference is gonna get eaten up quickly by the weight of a tag. Supposing the tag with wheels and tires weighs in at 3k ive only bought myself an extra 1 ton of legal payload but acquired a whole other maintenance headache. (Straights with duals have 4 tires to worry about and steerable with big singles seem to get crap tire life and always have bushing problems of some sort). I may end up with an all steel tandem and call it a day and that would be fine by me, quicker and cheaper to weld up when needed.

W923 · Apr 1, 2023

PBEtrucking said: ↑

Awesome W923! That's exactly the kind of real world numbers I was looking for and it helps that your tractor is #### near the same weight as the 379 I just picked up. I guess I'm going to have to call the DOT guys Monday when they open up and figure out how heavy I can pull a type R permit for on a tandem and what I need spec wise to do it. If I really can get 102 on 5 axles vs 107 on 6, that 5k of difference is gonna get eaten up quickly by the weight of a tag. Supposing the tag with wheels and tires weighs in at 3k ive only bought myself an extra 1 ton of legal payload but acquired a whole other maintenance headache. (Straights with duals have 4 tires to worry about and steerable with big singles seem to get crap tire life and always have bushing problems of some sort). I may end up with an all steel tandem and call it a day and that would be fine by me, quicker and cheaper to weld up when needed.
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Looks like the same kinda deal as here just you get to be a lot heavier. A lift axle adds less than 5k gross weight to most trucks and trailers and that makes it much less appealing for all the reasons you mentioned. Most tandem dumps run lift axles here but that’s pretty much it.
Make sure you get a well made trailer because plenty of tandem trailers are built to be lightweight and only intended for 80k gross.
I do feel that the extra truck wheelbase is a plus for me because I get about 1.8 tons extra and 4 feet of extra frame and drive shaft is pretty negligible weight, occasionally it does get in the way on jobsites.

PBEtrucking · Apr 3, 2023

Alright guys, so to keep this thread updated it looks like the tandem is probably out. I just talked with a fellow O/O much more knowledgeable than myself on NY overweight permits for combinations. Basically the way he explained it to me, a 102k permit is possible on a tandem, BUT to achieve it I would need such a ridiculous spread that I'd be looking at 39' or 40' trailers which are all gonna be frameless and just too long to be safe dumping on the offroad site that we need to unload at. He also explained that the 107k permits are very easy to achieve with 6 axles where 3 are on the trailer, almost any trailer will achieve it and he showed me a 107k permit for a daycab 379 and 30' framed end dump he owned. He also then went on to say if I was shooting for 117k with 7 axles that that permit is also pretty length dependent and the easiest way to stay safe when trailer shopping was shoot for the 107k with a tri combo. Man NY is an interesting place to do business lol.

Ruthless · Apr 9, 2023

PBEtrucking said: ↑

Alright guys, so to keep this thread updated it looks like the tandem is probably out. I just talked with a fellow O/O much more knowledgeable than myself on NY overweight permits for combinations. Basically the way he explained it to me, a 102k permit is possible on a tandem, BUT to achieve it I would need such a ridiculous spread that I'd be looking at 39' or 40' trailers which are all gonna be frameless and just too long to be safe dumping on the offroad site that we need to unload at. He also explained that the 107k permits are very easy to achieve with 6 axles where 3 are on the trailer, almost any trailer will achieve it and he showed me a 107k permit for a daycab 379 and 30' framed end dump he owned. He also then went on to say if I was shooting for 117k with 7 axles that that permit is also pretty length dependent and the easiest way to stay safe when trailer shopping was shoot for the 107k with a tri combo. Man NY is an interesting place to do business lol.
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upstate vs downstate/
Upstate you need more length to get 117 on 7

You said this is a real short haul operation- how often you expect to be getting caught up in a scandal with Hochul’s Heros?

abyliks · Apr 10, 2023

I don’t recall length requirements but you can also go with a pusher on the tractor to get 117 on 7?as well, dont need all of them on the trailer

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