Full load, grades, no engine brake

J man,you are going down the hill to fast.
Plain and simple.
All you describe tells me this.

You are a newbee driver,correct?

If i was teaching you to drive mountains,i would tell you that the first weeks you drive in the mountains you need to go down the hill in such a low gear that you allmost don't need to use your brakes.
Then once you have mastered this,you can speed up a little.
Part off the problem is that you cannot teach a newbee to drive like a veteran in a few days/trips.
In fact,if you were my driver and you did a mountain run as fast as a veteran ,i would call you into the office to have a few words with you,basicly telling you to slow down.


As to some off the other posts........
I don't care for which method you use,if your brakes are hot and/or smoking(even just a little) by the time you get down the hill..............you are doing it wrong.
Brakes should NOT be hot when you stop and the end off a downhill run.
Over the years i have seen plenty off drivers who where "king off the hill" curse slower drivers.
Those same "king off the hill" drivers wrecked more brakes then i care to remember.
A hot brakepad becomes what i call glaced.
Surface has shine to it and is rockhard.
It also means that this same brakepad has lost most off it's stopping power.

So when a driver tells you he can come down a hill bearly avoiding that his brakes are smoking...............something is seriously wrong with his driving style.

As a driver you should be proud if your brakes have hardly heated up when you have come down a hill.
That means you are a safe and good driver.

 

Start slow and use light steady brake pressure to hold the truck back. The key is SLOW and your brakes will do their job and wont get hot. I drive in the pacific NW where the hills are long and steep with 98,000 LBS gross and never once have i smoked the brakes. I come down cabbage hill here in oregon on I84 3-4 times a week and have never had a problem. Ryan

 

On a long steep grade stab braking will heat them up more. Slow is the key coming down long grades. Ryan

 

This is scary reading this thread. I see some have not read their CDL manual or believe it has incorrect information?

Stab Braking: Used for emergency stopping. You brake hard until the wheels about lock up, you release to not lose traction and repeat.

Snub braking is controlled braking and the preferred choice on mountain grades. hit speed, brake slowly but positively to -5, release brakes and gain speed back to chosen speed, repeat.

Brake fade is from constantly riding your brakes. As the drums heat they expand the hotter they get to the point where the shoes can't push as hard against them. Riding the brakes you'll find yourself pushing harder and harder on the pedal by the time you get to the bottom. Risk of over heating is greater if your speed is not correct.


The key factor is speed. Speed equals force. Engine braking is your primary hold back even without a retarder. If your brakes are getting hot you are going too fast plain and simple. Both riding your brakes and snub braking can over heat your brakes if you are going too fast. Riding your brakes you don't give your brakes any chance to cool down. Brakes shoes glaze, drums develop spider cracks and if you find yourself in a pickle your brakes are already borderline hot. The only thing saving you is a slow speed. That's the whole purpose of snub braking is hot, cool down, hot, cool down..... If you find yourself snub braking too much, again you are going too fast and in the wrong gear.

Don't let anyone intimidate you. You can attack any hill with no jake. This is where experience comes in. Your weight, the grade %, length of grade all determines your speed. Until you get use to it attack slow and maybe and upshift is good. Trying to downshift is wrong and the truck has already got away from you to where you caused a heat problem. You see trucks flying down hills all the time doing 45 mph or more. Then you see grandpa in the right lane coming down 15 mph. Well grandpa is the experienced one with no jakes.

This one gear lower is old news. Today's trucks have more power and can climb easier. Truth be know you probably want to be 2-3 gears lower with newer trucks. If the yellow caution sign says 45 mph you start at 20 mph. If you see you have it under control but are over killing then you can grab a gear and add 10 mph. There is no rule saying you have to push the truck to it's limit.

If riding your brakes softly was the preferred method that's what would be in the CDL manuals and taught in school.

 

Yes it is. Douglas,Wyoming 2001. 42" Inside diameter X 80' feet long.

 

Not trying to be argumentative Xcis..but I'll take my method Slow steady EVEN pressure over "Snub braking"....All that is , is fanning...I was lucky enough to drive accident free for over 30 years using those methods and I'm a firm believer in not fixing it , if it ain't broke. As to the wind resistance , and new slicker aerodynamic trucks and the wind at your back thing....IMO, neither of those things makes enough of a difference to be measurable unless you have a very, very high tail wind. Like I said just stating an Old farts opinion...but that opinion comes from over 3 million save miles...must be doing something correct.

 

It all boils down to speed. You put one with slight pressure verses a snubber pushing the limit, the snubber will win. If both are coming down at good slow speed, both will make it.

Example: if both can come down safely at 40 mph, the slight pressure might push 45 mph and the snubber 47 mph. Not a big hoopla but the better method is taught. It's not the decision maker whether you are a better driver or not. Knowing the proper speed and proper gear is.

 

Agreed Speed along with the condition of the brakes make a huge difference......Only thing is the snubber has a lot bigger chance of letting that speed get too high...then the laws of physics take over. Once the speed is too great the snubber Must use more pressure And air to retain control.

 

Oops, should have finished reading the thread before commenting...