Help understanding antenna?

Discussion in 'CB Radio Forum' started by TheDude1969, Mar 15, 2016.

  1. TheDude1969

    TheDude1969 Heavy Load Member

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    I've got a Volvo with adjustable 4' fibreglass single antenna tuned to 1:1.3, (1.25 on a good day). I install the same radio into a '92 Chevy with a 102" whip rainbow'd (from the rear bumper to top of cab) @ 1:3 swr... my Stryker 955 fails. I let the antenna up 4"above the cab and scoring 1:2.5 (which is below the radio SWR cut off) I'm now talking 1.5-2 times further than my taller better tuned whip?

    This makes no sense to me. I could understand the concept of 1/4 wave whip going farther, but not while its bent in half, or taller antennas can't reach.
     
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  3. MidWest_MacDaddy

    MidWest_MacDaddy Road Train Member

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    No help here but looking forward to hearing others ideas and learning a bit in the process.
     
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  4. home time

    home time Bobtail Member

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    [​IMG]
    I noticed I can receive from a longer distance using a metal attenna than using a fiberglass attenna . but I noticed differences when using a converted over and peaked and tuned connex 3300 HP and a Galaxy DX 47 HP
     
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  5. rabbiporkchop

    rabbiporkchop Road Train Member

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    I'm not quite sure I understood the original post. The bumper is one of the worst places to mount an antenna. The roof is the best place to mount the antenna. A 16-inch rubber ducky antenna bolted to the center of the roof quite often will outperform 102 inch whip bolted to the bumper. I'm not quite sure what the problem is
     
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  6. handlebar

    handlebar Heavy Load Member

    It may very well because of a concept our armed forces have been exploiting: NVIS. It stands for "Near Vertical Incidence Skywave". And some folks refer to them as "cloudburners". By being close to the ground (the actual earth) and tilting the radiating element to more nearly horizontal, what would ordinarily have been a donut shaped pattern of RF running equally out away from the antenna, now that antenna, which still radiates off it sides, is sending a whole lot of the energy straight up (well, sorta like a floodlight, rather than a spotlight.) The earth under said Humvee/Striker/Deuce-and-a-half serves to reflect a substantial portion of the RF that hits it from above, increasing the amount of energy going skyward, instead of to the horizon. In terrain that's too hilly for VHF to work, a hundred watts or less can more reliably pass traffic to and from other similarly equipped stations & vehicles.
    Because the bulk of the energy is going more or less straight up and at slight angles from plumb 90 deg, and since angle of incidence equals angle of reflection (think of a laser pointer shining on a mirror from one side, and see where it reflects to), a pretty hefty dose of that (often) modest power gets reflected nearly straight downward, to hit stations in the 20- to 200-mile path.
    Here's a pretty good basic explanation (certainly clearer than mine:

    http://kv5r.com/ham-radio/nvis-antennas/

    Either that, or something else. <-------- Handlebar's Universal Disclaimer®,
    Handlebar Enterprises International, 1981 All rights reserved
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
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  7. Ridgeline

    Ridgeline Road Train Member

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    What do you mean a volvo? Truck? Car? C303 (which I love mine)?

    Rainbowed?

    OH yes the hillbilly NVIS version.

    Got it.

    How does your little 955 fail, fail at what?

    Getting out or taking the kids to the mall?

    Which antenna?

    The fiberglass one or the whip?

    What Handlebar said is correct, it is because of the waves going straight up instead of straight out. If you were need of talking skip to communicate, then yep that would be the way you would have to set it up, but if you want to talk everywhere else locally, then just leave it up.
     
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  8. rabbiporkchop

    rabbiporkchop Road Train Member

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    Bending your antenna over and making it lay flat is kind of like putting rubber bands on your man parts and trying to take a leak. It doesn't exactly work too well.
     
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  9. TheDude1969

    TheDude1969 Heavy Load Member

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    Sorry for the incoherent first post guys, whatever I was thinking at the moment it made sense, or I was drunk from all the overhead radiation lol.

    Originally I installed it this way, because I remember all the IL state troopers from the 70-80's had them from the left rear quarter bent over (rainbowed)... thinking they must know what their doing, maybe it increases their listening distance using a 102"? Since back in the 90's I had only ran a stock radio, I was more interested in hearing than talking, plus if I ever got into a jam off road I'd let it stand tall, for its full effect, not knowing how the counterpoise/ ground pattern worked at the time. And for some dumb reason I thought it would look good <--NOT, wtf was I thinking!

    But anyways I dug the truck out of storage recently, and installed the radio... I thought my ground/coax something was bad because everyone I talked to, sounded so distant on the same radio I used daily in my big truck. Until I got a location from a driver 25 miles away, then 30. Nothing made sense to me, of how a horribly tuned antenna could make the trip, maybe a weird db gain spike in the pattern. But maybe this NVIS is the cause?

    I'll be replacing the old 102" with a better suited magnet or tool box mount. And I thank you all for the advice, Rabbi, Ridge, and the NVIS read Handlebar.
     

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  10. Ridgeline

    Ridgeline Road Train Member

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    Well if you're like your handle there, dude, then I can understand the way you put it together.

    One of the best movies I have seen by the way.

    That said, I bought a few cars out of the police pool a long long time ago (1979), sold all except one and was thinking it would be great to have that antenna already there but when I did use the antenna, it wasn't tuned for CB but it was for something around 45 mhz. I measured it and it worked out to be just that, cut for that frequency. I was later told that it was for the old Motorola transceivers which were also sold at the auction.
     
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  11. TheDude1969

    TheDude1969 Heavy Load Member

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    LMAO, your the first to mention it... and yes The Dude abides
     
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