HOS question

You wouldn't be quoting from this, would you?

http://www.jjkeller.com/shop/Produc...ual-Online-Edition-with-1-Year-Update-Service

 

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/ Drivers it is tough to find and it is there. I'm glad you don't just take my word for it trust me, but like I said contact your safety department and your local FMCSA rep. Drivers There are many loopholes and there aer people at the FMCSA that will give you the information that will back up what I have said and shown.

 

Nothing here: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/395.3
Nothing here: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/hours-service/summary-hours-service-regulations
Nothing here, either: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety/carrier-safety/motor-carriers-guide-improving-highway-safety

What is found at the FMCSA website all say the exact same thing...

Funny thing about the FMCSA website, in regards to the FMCSA's own "A Motor Carrier's Guide to Improving Highway Safety" publication...it has a disclaimer:

In other words, IN THEIR OWN PUBLICATION, the FMCSA states clearly that the regulations are the regulations, and if any discrepancies exist between the regulations and the publication, the regulations are to be followed. I would imagine a similar disclaimer exists with JJ Kellar or wherever that publication you are referring to came from, and bottom line is that the regulations say no such thing. You can quote from a 3rd party book all you want, but it isn't in the regulations. If it WERE in the regulations, it would be on the FMCSA website with all of the other regulations....specifically in §395.3 where it deals with maximum drive time and the 34 hour restart is laid out. What you are talking about isn't even in the GUIDANCE for §395.3 on the FMCSA website, which leads me to believe that wherever you are getting that information from is flat out wrong...no different than the driver who heard it from somebody who heard it from somebody who heard some guy at the truck stop saying his safety guy got it straight from the DOT auditor. If it isn't IN THE REGULATIONS, it isn't enforceable. Period.

 

Heck, on the FMCSA website, in the regulations, if you search for keyword "34-HOUR RESTART" and select "Hours of Service" as the topic, you get 1 result...
§ 395.3: Guidance for section 395.3 (guidance response) http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/395.3?guidance

...and that is nothing more than a mention of the appropriations bill which suspended enforcement on the limitations (2 periods of 1AM to 5 AM and only 1 restart in 168 hours) recently placed on the 34 hour restart. NOTHING mentioning that you can't restart if you're past 70.

If it ain't in the regs, it can't be enforced.

 

Why would you go over 70 in 8 days anyway ??..thats just too much..12 to 14 hours a day for 5 days or 10 for 6 and I'm good.

 

Town Drunk, I am not jumping on the band wagon, but what is the published date of the manual you are quoting from? I have a copy of the JJ Keller FMCSA compliance manual from 2004 with that information in it, that is how a 34 hour reset was first proposed to operate but it was changed shortly after that, somewhere around 2005 or 2009. I can't find my old copy from that period to see exactly when it changed, but it has changed. There is no current requirement to be at or under 60/70 hour rule to use a 34 hour reset. Currently, after December 16, 2014, any consecutive 34 hour period resets the 60/70 hour clock and the 7/8 day window for purposes of calculating available hours and for eligibility to use the 16 exception for local drivers 395.1(e) and/or 395.1(o).

You may have taught this in the past, I still teach it, safety and compliance consulting is one of my businesses, along with auto transport and driver leasing. It is imperative to stay current, these regulations change often and it is easy to accidentally quote and disseminate out dated information. For example, the FMCSA has yet to formally update their online regulations pertaining to the mandated change to the 34 hour reset removing the 168 hour period between resets and the two 1-5am periods. They only reference it in the guidance section by referring to the Federal Register posting.

If you have information to the contrary in an official FMCSA publication I would love to have a copy of it scanned and posted as a PDF, showing the effective date and the publishing date to show it is the most current version of the regulation. A hyperlink to the page on the FMCSA site that quotes your interpretation of the 34 hour reset will also suffice. Not a link to just the general site but one to the specific page such as this one to section 395.3 which is where the regulation that governs 34 hour resets can be found. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/395.3

 

That is because the regulations haven't been changed. The appropriations bill only stopped enforcement of those newly enacted provisions until the economic effects as well as whether or not they affect highway safety could be looked into further.

 

Casual Driver, to answer your question that started this whole off topic debate;
1. Yes, if the total of the hours worked at either or both jobs is greater than 12 hours in a 24 hour period you need to complete a log sheet for that day showing the hours worked at both jobs. Keep in mind under the current regulations, you are limited to no driving after the 14th consecutive hour from when you first come on duty, this would be from the time you start the first job in the morning. Unlike when you started driving 30 years ago you can not pause your day anymore, off duty time and split shifts do not stop the 14 hour clock.

2. No, you need 10 consecutive hours off duty between tours, so when you night shift ends you can not start you "day job" until 10 consecutive hours have passed otherwise.

3. No, your 60/7 day or 70/8 day total is a running total unless you take 34 consecutive hours off duty, then your available hours will reset to 60 or 70 depending on which cycle your motor carrier operates on.

Realistically what you are doing is hard to do legally, if you work 8 hours a day M-F starting at 7 am, end your day job at 3pm then head over to you night job as a driver and arrive by 4 pm you only have until 9pm to legally drive, which only gives you 5 hours. You could squeeze in 6 hours if your two jobs are really close and you don't take any time to your self. To further confuse things, to be strictly legal you must have a 30 minute break no later than 8 hours from when you start your tour before you drive, which you could squeeze in between your day and night jobs. The other restriction depends on which cycle your carrier operates on. If they run trucks 7 days a week you may use the 70 hour in 8 consecutive day cycle, if they do not operate trucks all 7 days of the week then you must use the 60/7 day cycle, so working 40 for your day job only leaves you 20 for your night job over the 6 days you say you work, that means you can only work about 3 hours a night as a driver. If you can use the 70/8 day cycle you can work 5 hours a night as a driver.

 

I think you said you only drive a second job, for six hours a night, in california if you stay within one hundred and fifty miles of your base of operation, no log book is required at all, just need bill of Laden showing so, might look into that, I drove local as its called for ten years, hauling fuel and lube to job sites, never filled any logs.