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I need some clarifications please... From an O/O Perspective

Discussion in 'Ask An Owner Operator' started by Nootherids, Nov 13, 2010.

  1. Nov 13, 2010 #1
    Nootherids

    Nootherids Light Load Member

    145
    57
    Oct 28, 2010
    Woodbridge, VA
    0
    PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS SPECIFICALLY POSTED IN THE "ASK AN OWNER OPERATOR" SECTION

    Please understand that I am newly entering this industry and want to educate myself as much as possible BEFORE I get to learn everything from my own bad experiences. So your help is very much appreciated.

    So I know this topic is like beating a dead horse but this is why I ask. This site seems to be run primarily by employee drivers and leased operators. Many are complaining unnecessarily some just like to tell stories about it.

    But after reading over 1000 posts about it on a couple of other threads all I got from them is that "lumpers are children of the devil". Not useful information on learning about the industry.

    Ok so here are my questions, all of them assuming you are an independent O/O running under your own authority...

    - Lumpers... Who really pays for them? Meaning does this cost get invoiced back to the broker/shipper or does it come directly out of our operating expenses?

    - Negotiating with brokers... Do you include this cost into the negotiations? I know that you should always discuss your minimum rate and an agreed upon fuel surcharge, but is the unloading fees something that should also be discussed?

    - Sort and Segregate... HUH? Call me stupid but I do not understand why we are supposed to not only drop of the cargo but we also have to breakdown the pallets. I thought our job was to pick-up and drop-off. Where did work once the product is inside their facilities come from???

    - Threatening the Dock... What if it doesn't work? I've read tons of people talk about threatening leaving the dock altogether and when they are half-way out the gate they are asked to come back and are taken care of. Ummm...what if they let you leave? Where would the product go then? Do you make a trip back to the shipper meaning you will incur double gas costs and they would not pay you for your non-delivery anyways? Or what do you do? This would be akin to the receiver denying your load, what then?

    - Bill of Lading... Who writes it? Is this something that strictly comes from the broker/shipper? Or is the carrier supposed/allowed to request that his own BOL be used? Primary reason I ask this is to understand where a carrier would be able to stipulate maximum detention time before a penalty fee is assessed, and who would this penalty be assessed to, the broker, shipper, or receiver???

    I know these are a lot of questions and I am hoping there will be an angel among you that will give me a much needed crash course lesson as the reefer will be in my possession very soon. I don't mind doing the unloading work to get some exercise in and all, but there is no way that I want to be breaking down and separating in particular order the food that gets delivered to a grocery store and so on. Thank you for your help! :biggrin_25514:
     
    Nootherids, Nov 13, 2010
    Nootherids, Nov 13, 2010
    #1
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  3. Nov 13, 2010 #2
    Winchester Magnum

    Winchester Magnum Road Train Member

    1,492
    1,647
    Jan 4, 2009
    Alaska highway
    0
    The broker will most always re-emburse you for the lumper bill. They already have arangements with the shipper to cover lumping. Best to agree on it though when you book the load just to be sure. Either agree that they re-emburse if the lumper does the work, or you do the work. Quite often a broker will already know what the lumping charges will be. Many times I will do the breakdown myself if it's a few skids or a tier or two. Some drivers hate the notion of laying so much as a finger on freight, and I can appreciate that, however if I can do 30 minutes of restack/breakdown for $75 in my pocket and keep it out of a lumpers pocket, #### straight I will do it. The going rate on detention is $65 +/- per hour to sit. The $75 for 30 minutes of work obviously translates into $150 per hour which is more than you'll net driving down the road for one hour with $2.50/mile freight.

    I can already see the flatbeders reading this ready to jump. Pre-emptive strike - you spend a half hour tarping in the rain and cold for nothing. So there, bish .... (Grins)

    In my experience, it is easier to get more money out of them on the front hauls out of good freight areas, not so much in the back haul areas. Freight pays and moves primarly on supply and demand, moreso than by the price of a gallon of diesel. Many cringe at the thought of $1.00 a mile backhauls, but keep in mind you should have gotten $2.50 +/- a mile going in. I speak of great freight areas into bad freight areas. Some regions fall somewhere in the middle of this example - Buck and a half in, buck and a half out.

    It's a game the recievers know they can win. A LOADED truck at a reciever is at the mercy, unlike an UNLOADED truck is at the shipper, which is why a shipper doesnt make you stack their freight before it goes onto your trailer. Plus, the mega grocery warehouses are buying product and know the sellers would like to keep selling. So the sellers pay.

    If you are going to try the threat and leave game, you should have clearance with the shipper or broker. I'd prefer to play the #### lumper game just to get it off my trailer (provided I know I am getting re-embursed) If you play ###### and leave, then call the broker/shipper to tell them what you did, they will tell you that they intended on paying the lumper bill, now you just have to go back, worse yet make a new appointment for tomorrow, and still go back.
     
    Winchester Magnum, Nov 13, 2010
    Winchester Magnum, Nov 13, 2010
    #2
  4. Nov 13, 2010 #3
    Nootherids

    Nootherids Light Load Member

    145
    57
    Oct 28, 2010
    Woodbridge, VA
    0
    Invaluable breakdown, thank you!

    I actually prefer the idea of unloading the trailer myself for the sake of exercise and experience, and most definitely to keep the cash in my pocket too. But at least now I know to discuss this reimbursement limit with the broker ahead of time so that if I get to the dock and they try to require that I use a lumper I can negotiate with them something like, if they finish in less than an hour I'll pay full price and if not then the pay will be 25% less for each 30 minutes. I wonder if that would work...

    - Could you explain how the detention pay works? Does it need to be agreed upon with the broker first? Does the receiver have to sign the moment you arrive? Do you count from the moment you touch the dock/talk to manager/or arrive at gate if they make you wait for a dock space? Etc...

    - Do I really have to breakdown pallets or can I just drop them off in their dock and be done with it? I don't mind pulling them out but I really don't even wanna know what products I'm delivering even less carry them to and break them down at the required department. Can I just drop off the pallets only?

    - GOOD POINT ON THE THREATS DEPARTMENT!!! If the broker will reimburse for the lumping cost anyways then why get into all that drama?! Thanks, I think I will bypass this idea. It is my responsibility to negotiate properly with the broker/shipper BEFORE I take the load.
     
    Nootherids, Nov 13, 2010
    Nootherids, Nov 13, 2010
    #3
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