Important contributions to driver safety?

Discussion in 'Experienced Truckers' Advice' started by davidcboyd33, Apr 27, 2009.

  1. davidcboyd33

    davidcboyd33 Light Load Member

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    I have recently read a number of posts, railroadings really, about CDL schools and how they contribute to a terrible lack of safety in the trucking industry. A select few individuals on this forum truly believe that the level of training at a CDL school is so substandard, that perhaps we should just go back to the pre-CDL days when almost anyone with a license could hop in a tractor-trailer or bus and drive.

    To hear it told by some of these guys, a person might think that CDL schools actually take good drivers and ruin them. In truth, some CDL schools are 3rd party testers and some, some I say, license drivers that probably shouldn't be licensed(but most of us who have been through a school and licensed by a state examiner can attest that this is the exception rather than the rule).

    Upon examination of some of these posts, you might discover that these guys have been driving for 20 or even 30 years, were grandfathered in to their CDL and probably have never been to a CDL school. Yet by their opinions you would think they were CDL training experts. Keep reading their posts in thread after exhausting, successive thread and you will find that they post in an almost "copy & paste" fashion, because the message and the words rarely change.

    I have done some preliminary research on the correlation between CDL school graduates and Trucking accidents. I have found no statistical data so far. I expanded my search to find a correlation between inexperienced drivers and Trucking accidents, and have found little so far.

    What I was able to find is a PDF document on the FMCSA website which examines a number of studies done by independent groups covering many different aspects of the Industry in relation to Safety, and I have some findings to report. **Note, these studies are done in an attempt to determine ways that safety can be improved in the industry. An overhaul of the CDL school environment isn't even mentioned.**

    There are certain factors that have a direct correlation to safety in the trucking industry. The most notable of these are:

    1. Pay:

    "...analysis showed a nearly one to one relationship between the compensation variables and crash probability. For every 10% increase in average driver compensation (including benefits and anticipated raise), the carrier experienced 9.2% less crashes. The presence of a safety bonus was also a significant variable."

    "...at higher levels of pay, the income becomes sufficient enough that workers feel comfortable seeking more leisure time. The shape of the supply curve showed that, at pay rates below 31.4 cents per mile, drivers worked longer hours. For rates above 31.4 cents per mile, drivers worked fewer hours, choosing leisure time over the extra income."

    2. Driving History

    "Statistical analysis of the data showed that the two violations associated with the highest increase in likelihood of a future crash were reckless driving and improper turn violations. When a driver was cited for one of these violations, their likelihood of having a future crash increased 325% and 105%, respectively. Both log book (i.e., false or no log book entry) and disqualified driver violations were associated with more than a 50% increase in the likelihood of a future crash. An HOS violation and a medical certificate violation were found to increase crash likelihood 41% and 18%, respectively.
    The four convictions associated with the highest likelihood of a future crash were improper or erratic lane changes; failure to yield right of way; improper turn; and failure to keep in proper lane. Drivers convicted of one of these types of convictions increased their likelihood of a future crash 91% to 100%. Finally, the results of the crash data analysis indicated that drivers who had prior crash involvement increased their likelihood of having a future crash by 87%."

    Another noteworthy quote from this document which does concern training:

    "...suggesting that risky drivers are more than simply those with a lack of skill or inadequate training. In an interview with Peter Van Dyne, technical director for Liberty Mutual, he explains that “many crashes are caused by drivers’ habits and practice, not by their lack of technical knowledge. For example, a driver may be careless about making lane changes, or the use of cruise control, even though he or she knows the proper procedures” (as cited in Leavitt, 2005). This reinforces the notion that safety cannot simply be improved with more training. Often drivers possess the skill and knowledge needed to drive safely, but a bad habit or outside factors, such as a weak safety climate or lack of communication within an organization, will intervene and result in unsafe driving behaviors."

    The above quote directly supports a study that was done by Schneider National back in 2004 showing that the majority of their damage claims could be attributed to drivers who had between 1 and 3 years of experience. NOT, the recent school graduates that some would blame for most of the damage. The explanation of that study was almost the same as was given above.... COMPLACENCY! Not lack of training.

    And one other quote from a study that makes a direct link between certain drivers and their likelihood of being cited for a moving violation:

    Union members, drivers at larger firms, and drivers who learned to drive a truck at a private trucking school were significantly less likely to have received a moving violation in the last 12 months. Drivers at smaller firms, owner-operators, drivers who drove more miles in the last 24 hours, and drivers who learned to drive at a public or technical school were all more likely to have received a moving violation.

    The information above can probably be attributed to one simple fact: Large firms, and union companies govern their vehicles while small firms and owner ops do not. As far as the difference between Private school graduates and Tech School grads, who knows? Perhaps the fact that private school grads pay a higher price for their training leads them to take more precautions with their investment.

    Summary: These experienced drivers have every right to question the examiners who give students their licenses. But understand that in most cases it is not the CDL school that makes that determination. You should also move a huge step forward and criticize the trucking companies who evaluate these students over the course of 6 weeks of OJT and determine to give them a set of keys. Students should continue to exercises the safe practices that they are taught initially. Stop trying to run with the "Super Truckers" who taunt you on the radio and DRIVE YOUR OWN TRIP!
     
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  3. magnet

    magnet Bobtail Member

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    Thats all B.S. Everyone has to start somewhere, at a school, with dad or wherever. The school does'nt make the driver its mostly common sense and courtasy.
     
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  4. ss goose

    ss goose Light Load Member

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    Trust me when I say that he is the cut and paste guy. He has invaded this site to push school on every thread he can possibly pull up !!!!!!!!!! And by the way DUDE, I'm proudly one of those guys your talking about and I'm just a newbie( not grandfathered into nothing). There are drivers still coming out taught by old school drivers and I will take my skills NOSE UP on anybody you put through school AND HEY POINT DEXTER I'M WORKING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And yes now you made me mad. You happy now ?
     
  5. davidcboyd33

    davidcboyd33 Light Load Member

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    Again, filling the forums with useless rhetoric and pointless challenges.

    And yes, I did cut and paste... it was a 211 page document and I was trying to find information other than my own personal beliefs for these new drivers to use. I tried to spend more time researching and less time flapping at the jaws.

    I do not push school on every thread I can pull up, I originally came here for advice and information. But what kind of man would I be if I continued to let CDL School slammings to go unchallenged.

    I will continue to research and post solid information, real stories of real people, both good and bad.

    I DO NOT push or advocate for CDL schools in general. I do advocate for quality schools that actually train students. I do advocate people making informed decisions about which type of school to go to, because like it or not, most of these people will not get into trucking by learning the "old school way."
     
  6. ss goose

    ss goose Light Load Member

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    Go to trucking jobs,look up the thread RENO DRIVER NEEDS HELP. Help the man out, lets see exactly what it is that all this school stuff can do to fix the fact THERE IS NO WORK no matter where you got your #### CDL but your the man with the plan and that driver is one of many who have paid the bills of people like you and now hes begging and I dont see any (school) help for him. You just wipe your hands and say #### HIS LUCK or let me guess you'll read it and come up with 10 ways that its his fault
     
  7. luvtheroad

    luvtheroad Road Train Member

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    Have to tell all of you that I went to Clark State Community College in Springfield Ohio. I am NOT a recruiter or in any way connected with the school. I paid my own way to go there. No grants, no loans, nothing free... The reason I couldn't get anything free was that I am not a "displaced worker" I was in the transportation industry for many years before deciding to do what I had always wanted to do and that is become a driver.
    All of that being said, I went to school with knowledge about the transportation industry. But not much legal driving experience.
    At Clark State, the instructors are ex-drivers. In the classroom and in the truck, they continued to preach and practice safety. One thing that will probably always stick with me is "you can't get anywhere fast in a truck, drive safely" Safety was an important issue there and they were able to tell you why. Was I elated with them, no, because on some things it was a struggle. But I did learn and when I get a job, there are a lot of things I learned there that will apply to my everyday job as a driver. Did I learn enough to go out and drive down the road by myself? No. I did not. Anyone who thinks that just going to school is enough is fooling themselves. We all need to ride with a trainer/mentor for as long as it takes to become a better driver and a safer driver.
    When I took my exam, I was given NO favors. I had to pass it on my skills and knowledge of the vehicle.
    I'm sure that there are some schools who have the third party testing or whatever and who do pass people who have no business out on the road. Hopefully they get caught and are shut down. The last thing this industry needs is another bad driver out on the road. The image of the driver and the industry is bad enough without another blazing illustration.
    Do I advocate schools? Yes, I do for the simple reason that most of the people who want to go into this have no prior history or knowledge in this industry. They have to learn somewhere if they don't have someone to teach them. Let's just hope that they pick a school that will teach them the important basics and not go with one of the bottom feeders who can teach them in three weeks to be a super trucker.
     
  8. doubledragon5

    doubledragon5 Road Train Member

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    Every school is different,there are good qualified schools that do their best to teach new students. Then you have the fly by nights, who are more interested in making the money off each student rather than teaching them. Is the fault of the potential student, no. Why? Simple depending on where they live, they might not have many choices of schools to attend, or the means, (money) to travel long distance to attend a better school. I went to a school in CT, and it taught me a lot, but not everything, as that comes with experience. We had lots of class room time, field time, and road time. Each instructor had at least 15 or more yrs of driving experience. When a new instructor wanted to be a part of the school, he/she had to be tested by the school, before being allowed to work for them, and some never made it.. Our safety/training instructor was a friend who I grew up with, and believe me he gave me no breaks at all. I failed my first examine as I had a hard time with blind side backing. I had to do 10 more days of training before be allowed to retest.

    Then when I went OTR with swift, my mentor, who now is a good friend of mine taught me a lot. He wasn't one of those who would let me drive say a hour, then jump back in the sleeper to sleep and leave me on my own. Here is how we did our training. Weeks 1,2 solo, I drove did all backing, and he sat in the jump seat at all times. He only got out when it was time for me to do backing, and he was there to help my do it right. Weeks 3,4 I drove 6, he drove 5 total 11 hrs. Again I did all the backing, and he watched and helped me when needed. Weeks 5,6 team, and he never got mad or upset if I had to wake him up for help..

    A lot of success in this busines depends on first your trainer, and what he taught you. Second how well to you pay attention,
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
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  9. GasHauler

    GasHauler Master FMCSA Interpreter

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    I'm sorry but you way of thinking is pathetic. Your experience comes off the computer and you lack any justification in what you preach. You say you have 5 years driving but that comes into question. Your pushing your school and believe me JR. if the insurance companies would get out of the hiring processs you'd see CDL schools go away. I have never called your training truck driving training because 99.9% are there to get the student their CDL. There's no training on taking care of the truck, there's no training on how to go down hills, and there's no training on time management. Schools teach of to get a CDL which anyone could do by going to any public library. All you do is provide a truck to take the road test.

    So instead of beeing blind why don't you look at some of these drivers that have 20,30,40 years of driving. Are you going to tell us that you turn out drivers just as good? I personally have over 20 years and have never had a ticket, accident. or spill. When you get to that level then I'll give you the respect you deserve until then you're just a knowitall driver that the companies I worked for wouldn't have you. Also check out the Smith System and find out who wrote that program. So do yourself a favor and stay in your place.
     
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  10. Hurryupandwait

    Hurryupandwait Light Load Member

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    It's funny you should mention that, the trainer at the driving school I went to was grandfathered into his license. I'll take my chances running down the highway with them any day. I value the older drivers opinions, they've been there done that.
     
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  11. davidcboyd33

    davidcboyd33 Light Load Member

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    You mis-understand what I said, sir. I have no problem with driver's who have been grandfathered in.... they learned to drive in their own way and I think that is great.

    What I was saying is that they have never attended a school yet they speak very lowly of them. They are not speaking from experience. All of the Instructors at my school save one, were grandfathered in, and there is nobody, not anybody that I would rather have training my students.

    You say it is BS, yet you summarized my post in one sentence.

    It's difficult to help a man that quit a job for no apparent reason. The story about being forced to go OTR in a daycab and having to pay his own hotel bill is BS, you know it and I know it. We know nothing else about him except that he has had 2 jobs in the past year and who knows how many jobs prior to that. We know nothing of his driving record or his criminal history. Schneider may have been taking a chance hiring him a year ago when jobs were still plentiful, and now his record just isn't good enough. Too many variables to be blaming this on anybody except the guy who quit his job without notice. What did this guy do with his truck when he quit Schneider, do you know.... I don't either.

    BTW, I didn't see where you had tried to help this guy at all.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2009
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