logging

Discussion in 'Ask An Owner Operator' started by 2hellandback, Oct 25, 2008.

  1. 2hellandback

    2hellandback Heavy Load Member

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    Dec 19, 2007
    Blackfoot Idaho
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    I'm leased on to a company that works the oil fields, 99% of the time I'm within 100 miles of the office.

    Its there policy to log but legally i don't need to log and starting Nov 1st i will stop my log books and dicontinue logging. I realize the company i work for may let me go , what if any legal recourse will i have if they do?
     
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  3. RickG

    RickG Road Train Member

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    Owensboro , KY
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    You post your location as Idaho . Idaho is an "at will" state which means an employer can discharge you without giving reason . There are exceptions such as racial or age discrimination or firing you after you file a workingmen's compensation claim .
    This explains it . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
     
  4. 2hellandback

    2hellandback Heavy Load Member

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    Dec 19, 2007
    Blackfoot Idaho
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    Actually im in wyoming.
     
  5. RickG

    RickG Road Train Member

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    Owensboro , KY
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    Wyoming is another "at will " state .
     
  6. Roadmedic

    Roadmedic Road Train Member

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    If your company requires you to complete a log, then it is something to be done irregardless of whether the dot requires it.

    The dot rules state since you are within the 100 mile location of where you have temporary station, then yes a log is not required. But a company can require it.
     
    psanderson Thanks this.
  7. poptop

    poptop Light Load Member

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    Oct 7, 2008
    anytown u.s.a.
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    why do you not want to comply with company policy????
    i am confused
     
    psanderson Thanks this.
  8. psanderson

    psanderson Road Train Member

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    Oct 13, 2008
    Moline, Illinois
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    The reason the carrier wants you to use a record of duty status (log or RDS) is simply because you lose time, and also money, when using the 100 air-mile radius rule. There is no exception from the oil-field added working/resting time exception when using the 100 air-mile radius rule.

    The 100 air-mile radius rule, 395.1(e), clearly states that each 12 hours of duty will be separated by 10-hours of rest (see 395.1(e)(iii). This rule therefore clearly tells you:
    1, That you cannot do anything after 12 hours from your start time except rest, and that rest must begin at your home terminal before the beginning of the 13th hour (no more than 12 hours duty time) because,
    2. You must begin and end your 12 hour day at your work reporting location (from where you are dispatched/home terminal...see 395.1(e)(2)). You must therefore allow driving time from your last pick-up/delivery to drive to your home terminal, and,
    3. You must still keep a record of your time (see 395.1(e)(v). This usually means that you must punch a time clock at your home terminal, though this is not always the case as there are other methods of keeping your time record at your home terminal.

    Failure to meet any of these requirements forces you to log on an RDS. Further, the 100 air-mile rule does not excuse you from the 60/70 hour rule. If you work 12 & off 10 you will use up your 70 hours in about 4 days, plus all the fuel you will be wasting driving to your home terminal each working shift. Further, if you drive your tractor to & from the terminal to your home you must still report the miles you drive to & from home under the rules of the International Fuel Tax Agreement (IFTA). That's a lot of wasted money and fuel right there assuming you come & go every 12 hours. Further, if you are within the allowance of the rule only 99% of the time you can't use this rule because you can't bounce from logging to not logging on a daily basis.

    Incidentally, it is not a 100 mile radius, but rather a 100 air mile radius. An air mile is a nautical mile. A standard mile is 5,280 feet. An air/nautical mile is 6,076 feet. The rule therefore allows a radius (a circle with your home terminal as the center point of the circle) of 115.8 standard miles. This means that you may be required to use a greater amount of work time and fuel returning to your home terminal at the end of each shift. Further, many states also have a rule that simply states that if you cross a state line you must be logging (this is not in the federal rule but I cannot remember a state that does not require this).

    While logging you have an additional 2-hour period to pick up your 11 driving hours. In addition, while logging, you may still work after the 14-hour period because the 14-hour rule at 395.3(a)(2) clearly states you merely can't drive after the 14th hour (the usual misconception to the 14 hour rule is you can drive for 11, work for 3 and then you must take your rest period which is untrue). And I haven't even included in this post the added time line for oil field workers.

    By the way, if you violate corporate policy, refuse to log and are terminated or your lessor/lessee agreement is terminated you will have no recourse. Violation of corporate policy is a legitimate excuse for termination/lease termination and in all likelyhood you will be refused any unemployment benefits if you are a company employee.

    From a retired federal DOT officer
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2008
  9. Semper Rotans

    Semper Rotans Bobtail Member

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    Aug 5, 2008
    Vancouver, WA
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    Could this also be something a carrier could add to a drivers DAC report as a negative comment that could follow him or her to their next job?
     
  10. psanderson

    psanderson Road Train Member

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    Moline, Illinois
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    It depends on the company. Usually a company only puts things such as; "terminated/quit" or for more serious problems/infractions; "must contact carrier" into the database they are using to receive the "DAC" report. You must also remember that a carrier/company/business may/could be held legally responsible for their actions if they out and out lie or intentionally deceive on any document that falls under the FCRA (Fair Credit Reporting Act), which a "DAC" report falls under, provided that the defamed individual has the wherewithal to seek legal advice assuming the individual can prove the false statement(s) are in fact false. In addition, any individual has the right under federal law (the FCRA) to appeal anything stated in an FCRA document through the company that maintains the database. As a usual matter though, most individuals don't even know how to perform this act and merely take what comes their way, and complain about it. Just look at all the posts on this and similar website(s) asking for advice about a "DAC". Another problem is that many of the answers to "DAC" questions posted here or in similar venues are incorrect in my opinion, and have no bearing on how to correct the potential, or real, problem. You must also remember that the company that maintains the data is not responsible for incorrect data/report content as they are merely reporting data from another source that has agreed in writing, and required under the FCRA, to report the data correctly. From a personal perspective, I believe that the vast majority of data on these type reports is correct as the company and/or individual providing the data does not wish to become a party to a very severe penalty, up to and including monetary penalties (fines), and/or prison time in a federal prison for violating an individuals rights under the FCRA. Further, an individual has the right under the FCRA to see the reason, and/or data, a company uses to deny employment to an individual based on a document under the FCRA provided the individual requests the information in writing from the company that did not hire them. The FMCSA also has a rule that required this. I could be wrong in my next statement, but I believe the written request must be received by the company who refused the individual within 60-days of refusal of services.

    Herein lies another problem. If you don't know your rights under the law, then how can one correct or overcome the problem, or to a greater extent, fix the problem? In short and simplistically, if you don't know your rights, ain't nobody gonna help you. And please forgive my butchering of the English language in this statement.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2008
  11. psanderson

    psanderson Road Train Member

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    I'm curious; do you still plan on ceasing to complete an RDS after reading all this data?
     
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