Lost A Job Through CSA?

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by KnuckleBuster, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. wis bang

    wis bang Road Train Member

    Jan 12, 2011
    Levittown, PA
    It actually started in 2008 testing in 4 States, NJ, GA, MO & CO, I think. I remember being at a seminar at NJ motor truck assn w/ Chris Rotondo, head of the NJ DOT office and a DOT guy from Maine listening to them describe how the 'new' program was going to operate. Wasn't many happy people in that room.

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  3. Roadmedic

    Roadmedic Road Train Member

    Apr 4, 2007
    I have heard comments around 70. But then I would not trust them for sure.
  4. Markk9

    Markk9 "On your mark"

    Nov 26, 2006
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    There is no disqualification number, CSA rules can't and will not take your CDL away from you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  5. mgfg

    mgfg Road Train Member

    Mar 29, 2010
    Not sure how many times this has to be explained but CSA can not/will not disqualify a driver. The driver scoring is PSP and you could have a zillion points and still maintain a CDL>
  6. Roadmedic

    Roadmedic Road Train Member

    Apr 4, 2007
    How about at what level of points and you will not be hired or could lose the job you have.

    Disqualification becomes moot if not hireable.
    Injun and truckerdave1970 Thank this.
  7. ironpony

    ironpony Road Train Member

    Sep 23, 2007
    Ask my GPS...
    Partially correct - anything that was put onto your CSA record (different from DAC or your DMV record) will be scored going back three years. Its weighted so that older infractions count less than newer ones.

    However - YOU DO HAVE ACCESS. You can request your CSA pre-employment screening record from the FMCSA for $10 and get it quickly, or push a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request and wait for some time.

    What I've been hearing is that it is important for you to know what's on that report. They can and do make mistakes on these records - to err is human ya know, but they have computers involved so that stuff can really get screwed-up at the federal level.

    Not true. Your current employer cannot access your PSP scores - but they can estimate what your score is. That part of CSA is the Pre-Employment Screening Program (PSP) - which a carrier you're applying to can request that information with your explicit written release. Because this is maintained by the FMCSA as a pre-employment program, your current employer is not entitled to this data.

    Everything else the CSA program reports to a carrier about you is listed as "incidents," not necessarily tied back to you through the federal data base. There are companies supplying "scores" to carriers, but this is based on what a carrier knows about your driving record. Remember, you must report all tickets to them, so all they really have to do is go from there and add it up.

    Partially correct - for something to appear on your CSA record, a DOT inspection must have occurred - so the officer must be authorized to carry out federal DOT inspections. If for instance, a local cop hands you a ticket without conducting a DOT inspection, that won't appear on your CSA record. Remember, you have to sign that inspection form - so if that doesn't happen, it won't be held against you in CSA.

    However, it doesn't matter whether the inspection form lists it as a ticket or a warning ("fix-it ticket") both will count against you.

    If you get a ticket dismissed in court, that will not automatically disappear from your CSA record. You have to do a "Data-Q" request to have it removed - which is a whole 'nother thing. Ultimately that goes back to the officer who issued the ticket, so depending on the state, you may or may not get something changed.

    Unlike your DMV record, anything you did in a personal vehicle should not be on your CSA record.

    Unless you're just starting...

    They need to get out from under the rock pretty quick. First thing they should know is letting go drivers because they freak-out over point totals is a bad way to go. It doesn't fix anything for the carrier. The second thing is that management must get educated on this program... not try to guess about it.

    My carrier spent a year getting geared-up to deal with it, we're out of Missouri, a test state. On the management side its complex. There are things that can help them, and other things that just hurt drivers but don't help the carrier at all. If they have a basic in the "alert" zone, it won't shut them down immediately. The FMCSA is sending letters out asking the carrier to respond with a plan to fix that problem. If your carrier has a bunch of alerts... well, unfortunately they'll probably be seeing their friendly, local FMCSA representative soon. The best advice you can give them is to find a third-party company that is providing management education on the program, sign up for it and spend the money. Its a good investment.

    Here's an example... the "Driver Fatigue BASIC" is mostly about log books. My carrier invested in the equipment and software to put us on elogs because of this - everybody hates them right? Wrong. It really is a good deal for the drivers and the company. On the driver side, once you get used to operating under elogs (it does take some changes in your habits) things are good. On the company side, they can use that data to improve their business operation - but most importantly - when I go into a scale house now, I get a pass on my logs because the computer and GPS are keeping me legal on the drive line. The DOT officer just tells me to get lost, and goes after the guys on paper logs. I get less exposure to DOT (and a chance of a ticket and points for everything) and no exposure to being put out of service for log book math errors, my carrier doesn't take a beating in the driver fatigue area because of stupid log book mistakes - we don't get log and out-of-service violations the way we used to, and the load planners have a much better way to look at which truck is the best match for a given load. I'm acutally busier and haven't had a loss of revenue since we went on elogs.

    The good part for managment is that they can get healthy. Since the scoring for the carriers ends at 2 years - the most important thing for them is to not continue collecting NEW CSA POINTS!!! The old points will drop off of the back end, and will do that every month as we go forward. What they must do is address any existing deficiencies NOW! That's because of the weighting system... new CSA points count much more against them than the old ones do.

    How do you do that? Well, its up to the DRIVERS! You need to avoid collecting new CSA points at all costs!!! You need to make sure all of those stupid light bulbs are working - and management has to get rid of the idea that you can just go down the road with busted equipment! Don't make stupid log book mistakes. If you're running illegally, STOP NOW! Don't speed... even a couple of MPH is a problem. WHY??? Because you need to limit your exposure to those stupid DOT inspection forms. There are a-hole DOT cops everywhere, so you can't completely hide from what happens out here, but you can control the stupid stuff. Most of what I just wrote is about not giving a DOT cop a reason to inspect you. Let the other guys take the heat!!!

    There isn't a scoring system against the driver - it is a scoring system against the carrier. Each basic is scored separately, and it is a weighted system - so its...

    SCORE = (sum of CSA points) x weighting factor.

    Now here's the kicker in all of this. Lets say you have lotsa points... if your carrier decides they don't like that, letting you go doesn't help them. Your points that you accrue WITH A CARRIER stay with that carrier for 2 years after you leave - for whatever reason.

    Also, if you go to a new carrier, those points don't follow you. You won't add them onto the new carrier's score, but those points will be listed in your PSP data. Now this is important... the insurance companies may or may not allow a carrier to hire you depending on what is in your PSP report. Not only because of the points. If there is a history of you being pulled over based on say 1-or-2 mph over the speed limit tickets on those DOT inspection reports, that may be enough for them to pass on you.

    Also note that if you are trying to "hide" employment with a carrier by not listing it on the application forms, that isn't going to happen any longer. If you had a DOT inspection at all during your employment, that stuff will show up now. That's another reason why it's important for you to know what's in that PSP report before you separate from a carrier - your application needs to match that PSP report perfectly.

    Finally, my CDL is out of a CSA test state - Colorado. I've noticed absolutely nothing different during the test period - between how it was working when I started and now. One thing I do notice is that when I change tractors, Colorado will pull me in for a paperwork check... cab card, insurance, IFTA, and my CDL. They update the database, and let me go. I'm very sure that when my PrePass is keyed after that, they know who is driving that tractor, what my CSA score is, and that affects whether I'm flagged for an inspection or not.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2011
    86file, rachi, Homefire and 5 others Thank this.
  8. DL550CAT

    DL550CAT Road Train Member

    Oct 18, 2009
    Waynesburg, Pa
    No, you have to have an inspection done. If your not inspected it does not go against csa. Say you run a stop sign and get busted its on your mvr but not your csa. Now if you run the sign and the trooper/cop does a roadside inspection then it goes on your mvr and your csa.
  9. Injun

    Injun Road Train Member

    May 15, 2010
    West o' the Big Crick
    Hey, Knucklebuster: how many drivers called in with sob stories claiming to have lost their jobs as a direct result of CSA? I'd be interested in seeing a synopsis of a couple of their stories.

    Because not only do I not know anyone who lost their jobs due to CSA, but I haven't even heard of anyone. Not even at the gossip counter.
  10. FZ37

    FZ37 Light Load Member

    Oct 15, 2010
    (Southern) Virginia
    Wow! for such an important job they sure don't make things easy. You need to watch who's on our roads but to an extent.The privacy is invated more than for safety I think. I don't have exp. like most of you but have read a lot here. Just make life a little easier and more comfortable for these men and women supplying our nation w/ all we need. We all know without trucks on the move for 3 days we ALL would be hungry. No fuel, clothes, cars, medicine or materials of any kind. These people supply the goods. The goods these "law makers want and need every day!! So why bite the hand? I know last time my wife was pissed I didn't eat nearly as good.
  11. ironpony

    ironpony Road Train Member

    Sep 23, 2007
    Ask my GPS...
    Hey Injun! Now I heard this from a caller on the Dave Nemo show on Roaddog. She said that Covenant (her employer) had let go some drivers with high CSA point totals last fall...
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