Made to use PC to leave shippers/receivers to benefit the company

Discussion in 'Experienced Truckers' Advice' started by XroadwarriorX, May 21, 2024.

  1. drivingmissdaisy

    drivingmissdaisy Road Train Member

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    This discussion begs the question that I would like answered.

    People here seem to agree that falsifying logs is bad, right? Ok. But why is it that falsifying them to the detriment of the driver is overlooked? What do I mean?

    Well, if you're leaving a facility, you have nowhere to go, nothing to do, you're on duty driving, you have no dispatch, no load, your company allows PC use, why is THAT not falsifying logs? You are running on duty driving, when you're NOT on duty. You're not helping your company, you're not doing anything like that. You're not being paid or compensated for those miles. That is off duty driving all day long. Why would someone think its ok to falsify logs if it hurts the driver, but really bad if it helps the driver?

    Things don't have to hurt to be ok, ya know. I did this just today. Ran a load all the way to Seattle and delivered a day early so the company had no load for me. I PC'ed with tons of time left on my clock to the nearest Loves, that thing was totally locked up, took me 30 min just to get back out again, and PC'd right back to the receiver and asked them were I could park since there was no parking anywhere around. I have no dispatch, I even have the phone call recorded where the dispatcher who answered the phone call said there is no trip on your truck, go park. PC if you need. That's it I'm done.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2024
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  3. Bean Jr.

    Bean Jr. Road Train Member

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    I would agree with you, but under dispatch is not the criteria. It's is the truck moving for the driver's benefit or is it moving because it can't remain where it was? Fmcsa guidance has repeatedly said that you can not PC leaving a shipper or receiver except if you're out of hours and they won't let you stay there. I don't understand why you're arguing with what fmcsa has written.
     
  4. Lostmykey

    Lostmykey Medium Load Member

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    Nowhere in the guidance does it say that you can only use PC when out of hours to leave a shipper/receiver.

    eta: Federal Register - Regulatory Guidance
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2024
    Reason for edit: Added link
  5. tarmadilo

    tarmadilo Road Train Member

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    I think he’s saying that, if he’s not under a load, not under dispatch, and isn’t being paid for his time, he qualifies to use PC to go wherever he wants to go. And I’m pretty sure he does.

    I wouldn’t call driving under “on duty - driving” a false entry, though.
     
  6. Long FLD

    Long FLD Road Train Member

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    The FMCSA’s definition of driving says nothing about being under dispatch or not.

    IMG_1931.jpeg
     
  7. drivingmissdaisy

    drivingmissdaisy Road Train Member

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    I didn't say it had to be under dispatch. I said it had to be for the benefit of the motor carrier. Being under dispatch is one way. I also detailed in another reply to this thread that I was not under dispatch but asked to bobtail 600 miles to get an empty trailer out of a yard. I said I went on duty for that because it was the instruction of the motor carrier. If my company doesn't tell me to do anything and I have nothing to do I can PC and do what I want. Being under dispatch means I know where to go to advance my empty trailer. If you're not under any dispatch you can't possibly know where to go to benefit the motor carrier.

    Leaving a receiver and going to Wal Mart or going find parking because they kicked me off the property is not, in any way, doing work for the motor carrier. It is only complying with trespassing laws of the receiver. Without a new address to go to, I am not under dispatch meaning I can't possibly know which way to go to advance my empty trailer, thus I can PC.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2024
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  8. Long FLD

    Long FLD Road Train Member

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    Ok, well the FMCSA’s definition of on duty driving also makes no mention of if it’s for the benefit of the company or not. It says on duty driving time is time spent at the controls of a motor vehicle in operation. From there you’re back to the guidance on PC which is open to interpretation by whatever officer is looking at your logs at the time.
     
  9. drivingmissdaisy

    drivingmissdaisy Road Train Member

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    Because nowhere in the FMCSA is that written. THAT'S why.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2024
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  10. drivingmissdaisy

    drivingmissdaisy Road Train Member

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    And the FMCSA's definition of on duty driving doesn't even MENTION PC; it doesn't include all of the PC exceptions. It doesn't mention anything about taking an unloaded trailer to go shopping, or taking it home yet we KNOW those are perfectly acceptable reasons not to be on duty driving. According to you, if I'm behind the wheel, its on duty and we BOTH know that's bullcrap so lets not go there.

    All of those things you listed in your little list benefit the motor carrier in some way. The last line states: "The bottom line is that on duty time includes all time that you are working for the motor carrier." That's EXACTLY what I said. You have to be benefitting the motor carrier. If you are working for them, you are benefitting them in some way, shape or form.

    Driving an empty CMV that is not under dispatch, not advancing a loaded or unloaded trailer, and not being paid and going to a location that I want to go, and my company did not tell me to go (although being paid or not doesn't really matter) is personal time meaning I can use personal conveyance.

    I've actually used PC to leave somewhere with time left when I knew I'd be driving in the wrong direction to park. Again, not advancing the load, going park, actually moving the trailer FURTHER from the next address, for parking, is personal conveyance for parking. I don't have to be out of hours. But this is VERY VERY RARE. Like maybe twice in all my years of driving. Because if parking advances the trailer, I go on duty as normal. BOTH times this happened was picking up those heavy ### rolls of paper from those #### paper mills. God I hate those places.

    I've had my logbooks gone over by the logbook and safety people of all 3 companies I've driven for and the only complaint one ever had is that I forget to certify my logs each day.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2024
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