My brakes are smoking when on steep grades.

It was really a trick question to see if you would agree with light steady pressure or would you keep saying snub braking was still a good idea on snow and ice and tire chains.

I have drive with tire chains and if you actually think using the engine brake in snow and ice even with tire chains is good idea you must not understand how the differentials work. Because in slippery roads the differentials will put all the engine braking power to the wheels with the LEAST amount of traction.

It all goes back to smoking the brakes. When you have an applied brake pressure gauge and know how to use it. It would help drivers stop smoking the brakes. Because you and any driver would see they are making more heat then can be dissipated

What's the first rule of driving a truck in snow and ice ? You turn off the engine brake and cruise control.

 

Ill have you know still don't have grey hair, skipped right to white.

So tire chains are not popular in the east. And what the roads now are not what they once were. I'm to young to remember. Dad ran flat top before it was cut down in a gas job, no engine brake. Tandem tandem NC to OH in the 60's. Gramps ran Stubbonville OH to Chicago 3 rounds a week on a single axle White, and single axle trailer before the interstate system was built. I appreciate the education I received from past generations.

I dont even own tire chains and have no plans on it.

But do not ever think for your life you can run OH,PA,WV,KY,MD without respect for the hills.

 

Are you actually lecturing me? LMFAO!

I don't come by my tagline as a joke, you know.


Snub is still preferable. What changes in low traction is the rate at which you get there. That brake pedal isn't exactly an on/off switch. If 10 psi is all you can ramp up to, so be it, but that's pretty rare. But you are always better to get a little more pressure if you can to get brake forces balanced out.

I know exactly how differentials work. I also am not talking about running the jake barefoot on ice. Traction is also not an on/off switch. You should have a pretty fair idea of traction levels if you're paying attention. (go read my threads about winter driving, I deal with traction aplenty.) And knowing you have fair traction gives the option of the Jake. The engine is going to kill the Jake as soon as a wheel slips, anyways. That's not a problem unless you're on glare ice, and then it's not on to begin with.

But the whole turn off the cruise & Jake the instant you see snow? That's one of those platitudes I talk about. And if you don't understand why it's just a platitude, and largely aimed at the inexperienced winter driver, it's probably a really good rule for you follow. There are plenty of us out here who pay attention, and know what we can and can't get away with. We know snow at 20° and colder is a far different animal than the wet snow closer to freezing.

But I gotta admit, it's humorous having you talk to me like I'm some newbie. 37 years now, and all but a few of those running in the harsh winter conditions of the rockies and upper Midwest. You know, those conditions that everybody insists we just need to shut down in? Yeah, I load and haul cars in that.

 

Disc brakes weigh about 100 pounds more per axle than drums. My tractor has them and they are beyond SWEET driving bobtail in the rain. Never pulled a trailer with discs. They reality is a well adjusted trailer does most of the braking. I'm still not sure how much better a disc tractor pulling a drum trailer is in the real world.
As far as as descending a hill loaded, I always felt it was better to be in a gear and not have to use brakes at all. Better off having to upshift than down shift. I almost lost a dump truck leaving a construction site at the top of a ski resort years ago. Lesson learned and always remembered.

 

Your application is not needed with me Sir! I'm just a son of a 3rd generation steelhauler in the greatlakes that ran heavy wreck on the turnpike for 11 years before in succumbed to my genetics.

One thing I learned. A pebble was steep on flat ground with some of my past work. I run a sissy 5 axle and in the rust belt with a covered wagon now. Not as glamorous, but its mine. Only mine. Not as easy as others assume, even with a hidekit. It's not even close to the gents I grew up around.

 

You don't need the engine brake in snow and ice. You are getting yourself closer to a jackknife or having to recover from one because you could make a tire spin. Your won't be driving downhill very fast so the regular brakes can do the job. You are better off using all 10 brakes vs hoping the differentials apply the engine brake even to the drive tire. Your goal is to get down the mountain safely.

You are saying thing like this is trying to put nail in jello! Was that a compliment ? If you want respect it goes both way. I have been driving a long time also. I even did some auto hauling also. When you and me or anyone goes out west. You chain up and keep going unless they close the road.

As a general rule you turn off the cruise control and the engine brake because you don't need them. You also don't want make a simple mistake and accidentally flip engine brake on at stage 3 or leave it on and when you take foot off pedal have it come on automatically. If someone is driving a new truck with auto transmission. You don't want them to turn the engine brake on because it can go to stage 2 or 3 and at stage 3 it will drop a gear and raise engine to 2,200 RPMs. That could be a really bad thing because that could put someone in a jackknife. You don't need the engine brake in snow and ice. That's what your brakes are for. You just have to go slower and your not trying to save your brakes.

Drivers need to know, how not to overheat their brakes. I never did snub braking, but I know with light steady pressure you have gauge and that will show a driver if they are going to overheat the brakes. I think that's much better way for a new driver. You can see as your driving downhill how much pressure is on the brakes. If you see more and more pressure is required to hold the truck speed and your going over 10PSI. You have overheating problem that needs to be fixed before start smoking or brakes start to fade. It's a simple fix, just slow down and get to speed you can hold at 10PSI or less.

 

A little banter in this thread but still a lot of info for a new or seasoned driver alike

 

I have no idea who had discovered those 10psi is a safe way to descend with, but in my laboratory testing environment I've discovered it is a 6.89psi, but if held not more than 6.89 seconds at a time with a "cool off" period of 6.89 seconds in between.

 

Dude engine brakes have 3 levels use the 3rd level if you’re trying to go 35 mph. If you don’t know what you are doing ask a co worker. You can kill people man. Come on now. That’s ridiculous!!!

 

We need @x1Heavy here to weigh in. Kinda miss his novels he used to concoct.

I run the hills of Central Pennsyltucky up into the Pocono mountains. Basically anywhere east of the Susquehanna river to the Jersey state line. We don't have long steep grades here, but we have some short, but really steep grades. Usually with a stop sign or red light at the bottom.
I've never been west of the Mississippi river to experience those hills, but I have been on the worst hills the east side of the country has to offer. I smoked the brakes once on 41 in Delaware I think it was. Hills and red lights at the bottom of each hill. After half a dozen hard stops, they were hot.

I had been running across 68 in MD and WV daily for a while, anyone who's been on that road knows the hills. Coming to east into Cumberland is 13 miles of 6% hill which ends with the S-turns in town. Most locals would fly down there at 55+ mph. I always did the speed limit of 45. Used the Jake's all the way down, occasionally tapping the brakes when the engine would hit 1800 rpm's. Never had a problem.

I do it that way most places. Other places I go, the light steady pressure method works better because the hills are that steep that letting off the brakes for a just a few seconds (even with the Jake brake on) you'll pick up speed quick enough that you gotta really get on the brakes to whoa it back down. That's where the stab, or snub braking theory is a farce and might get you in a bad situation.

Someone mentioned snow and ice. On a downhill in snow the last thing I'm doing is getting on and off the brakes. Light steady pressure will get you down every time. But I also use the Jake brake in the snow unless it's really slick.

I guess you can say I do it both ways. Stab or snubbing has it's place. But so does light steady pressure.