no worries i wont im just messing, took me along time to give up "####" as they call em back home! just been a lot of running around for nothing really, i dont really want to run local i actually wanted to be away for four to six weeks at a time seeing places! i guess should they decide to issue me with a restricted licence i can always drive dump trucks !!!!
As rnbwpnt was with the trainer who originally trained me when I started with KLLM and as I was privy to complaints from both sides, I believe it is only fair to play devil's advocate so that those here, and those considering KLLM, have the full score of information on which to base their decisions. I'm sure he's going to think I'm picking on him but I hope he'll read all the way through to the end and choose to learn from it instead of feeling defensive about it. - At orientation, the fleabag motel had bed bugs, which have now invaded my home, and which will likely cost hundreds or thousands of dollars to get rid of. On the matter of the hotel- I have stayed at the hotel in question several times with never a problem and I am one of those people who doesn't just get a little bump and redness with any kind of bug bites, I get whopping HUGE welts. Nor have I heard any other driver or trainee complain about bedbugs in regards to this hotel. - At the end of orientation, not enough trainers were available for all the trainees. Those of us who didn't get trainers were sent home to wait through the Christmas holidays without pay. To me, this speaks of poor planning and a disregard for the needs and expectations of new employees; my going to Jackson and the expectation that I'd have a trainer within a day or two of finishing orientation was not a surprise to anyone. I would have been happy to eat training pay for the interim two weeks; instead I got told, essentially, to get bent. This happens sometimes. I started training the last day in November 2007. The trainer had already scheduled for time off over the holidays so I was dropped off in Seagoville and went home for 10 days over the holiday. My choice? No. But sometimes you just cowboy up and do what you have to do. Welcome to trucking, despite the best laid plans things don't always turn out as you like. I was supposed to start my vacation on 1/23 and due to swapping out trucks I just got home today...but it was worth it. - Once we were informed that we'd be sent home, nobody actually told us what our travel arrangements would be or how to go about having them made. It wasn't until I rattled the training director the next day that I actually found out how I would be getting home. By bus unless otherwise told. This is the norm. But it takes time to make reservations and get confirmation. - Once I got home, I was left totally in the dark. It turned out that my trainer, before Christmas, had asked the training director if there were any students; if there were, the trainer would stay out, while if not, the trainer would go home for the holiday. While I cooled my heels without pay in Fort Worth, the training director told my trainer in Austin that there were no waiting students. Again, this speaks to a lack of attention to detail and a disregard for the needs and expectations of employees. The trainer in question always takes off for the Christmas holiday. Always. AR.. No more to follow. This was not a lack of planning or anyone lying to the trainer. Trucking is NOT all Go Go Go. There is a lot of waiting involved and driving reefers you usually do more waiting than you do with dry van. I, myself, had to wait 10 days after upgrading until they had a truck for me. The fact is that you had made it through the wait and then failed to apply yourself and pay attention during training. - I specifically asked for a trainer with HazMat experience and license. I myself carry a HazMat license, and I wanted to pull a HazMat load or two with the assistance of a trainer first. My trainer does not have HazMat, despite a company policy that requires trainers to have it. In fact, at one point, we had to turn down a HazMat load for this reason. While I could have driven the load, company policy requires that both drivers have HazMat licenses before accepting such a load. OK, you complain about having to wait for a trainer but then you want one tailor made. There is NO company policy requiring trainers to have a HazMat endorsement. The only thing close to it is a requirement that both members of a team have a HazMat endorsement in order for them to qualify to haul HazMat loads. Your options were to take the trainer available to you the soonest OR decline that one and wait for one who met your specific requirements (i.e. HazMat endorsement). Once I finally got onto the truck, I feel that I was not given sufficient driving time or feedback on my shortcomings. - During the first three days on the truck, I didn't drive at all. This is typical with several trainers that I know of in the company. They take the first three days to let the trainee settle in, get used to the truck, point out things for the trainee to observe and build a base for communication. - During the remaining 18 days on the truck, I accumulated FOUR 34-hour resets. Welcome to reefer life, especially between growing seasons. The economy has not helped any. - I accumulated less than 80 hours driving total, and at no time had less than 44 hours remaining under my 70 hour rule. And the major reason for this, other than this being the off-peak season, was because, according to the trainer you spent an inordinate amount of time on your laptop, including several all-night marathons, instead of getting adequate sleep so that you could be awake and alert enough for him to feel safe putting you behind the wheel. In light of a post you previously made on this forum regarding your opinion that the trainer was insensitive to your need for an internet connection, I am inclined to believe the computer related complaints he made. He tried mitigating the problem by parking in rest areas and other places without WiFi, hoping that lacking an internet connection you'd get sleep. Instead you played games on your computer. - The trainer spent a great deal of his time on the phone hitting on females (including other company employees) or arguing with his wife. He even maintains a separate cell phone that his wife doesn't know about so he can talk to these women. While I make no judgments about his personal behavior, it seemed to me that he could have spent less time on the phone and more time worrying about my instruction. Conversely, you could have spent less time on the computer and more time in the jump seat observing while he drove OR in the back getting adequate sleep so that he felt safe putting you behind the wheel. I am one of the people he "hits" on and I know him well enough to know that he's all talk and no action so we both know we can talk stupid to each other and joke around like that. As far as the separate cell phone, that is, in my book, his personal business and is irrelevent to the issue at hand. It also does not change the fact that EVERY driver he has ever trained, who stuck out their first year with the company, ALL drove accident free and received their one year safety awards- including me. - Most of my driving time was interstate driving. On a number of occasions, despite my needing to work on turns and backing, my trainer had us pull over on the side of the road (or access road) and change drivers so that he could pull us into stops. It's hard to practice turns shotgun, and we all know that we learn to drive a truck by driving a truck. I'm nothing if not fair and I agree with you on this one. In my conversation with him I bit him hard on a few issues regarding the situation, including this one. - On one occasion, my trainer ran out of hours and drove on my log book, a violation of federal law that could land us both in prison. Because you had been on the computer, had not had what he felt was adequate sleep so that he could feel safe putting you behind the wheel, and time was running out on the load. The customer was one who requires 100% on-time delivery. Had he not done what he did, the load would have been late and we would have lost a customer worth a sizeable chunk of change....less loads for our drivers and less revenue for the company. - KLLM has a training manual with evaluation criteria and sheets that are supposed to be completed by both the trainer and trainee weekly. My trainer said that he never had time; he wouldn't bother filling the thing out until we got back to Jackson for my upgrade. In fact, although I was terminated for deficencies in skill, my training log is completely empty, except where I've pre-filled my name. I bit him on this also but it is common practice among many of our trainers. - The feedback I got from my trainer was that the skill areas I've identified above needed practice, but that I wouldn't have a problem long term, and certainly I had no idea that my employment was in jeapoardy. His comment was that I "need to work on" it. Another thing I bit him on. Communication- he should have given you an ultimatum and been blunt with you. On your end though, when you climbed on that truck you entered ON THE JOB TRAINING and your head needed to be on the task at hand, not worrying about your computer and internet connection. Electronic doo-dads have become such a problem with trainees, not just at KLLM but other companies also from what I am hearing, that I Qualcommed the suggestion that laptops, Ipods, Walkmans and handheld video games be prohibited for trainees to have with them on the truck during the training period. If you can't live without the internet or electronic toys for 6 weeks then it is time to reconsider your career path. ___________________________________________________________ Let me stress something here, and this is for ALL trainees and trainees-to-be- You are choosing to enter a training program and career field in which you will be piloting a 75-80 foot, up to 80,000 pound, freight moving machine. ALL IT TAKES IS ONE MISTAKE TO TURN IT INTO 80,000 POUNDS OF ROLLING DEATH... When you climb behind the wheel of one of these trucks it is NOT a game. It is serious s.h.*.t. and if you aren't prepared to treat it that way then do yourself and the motoring public a favor...stay home and find another career. America's highways are littered with the memories of the cataclysmic messes caused by that "one mistake"- some of them honest and unpreventable, but far too many because some punk with an immortality complex thought he'd "show 'em how it's done". The latter is why the rest of us are so heavily regulated that we can't fart what without the DOT has to know about it in triplicate....and, for God sake, don't forget to log it the precise second it happens. Beyond that, living with the knowledge you killed somebody.....NOT something you want to have to do. Is it a paycheck? Sure. Is it "just another job"? Not by a long shot. You have not only your own safety, but also that of every person on the road around you, no matter how pea brained they may be, in your hands. You not only have to know where every inch of your truck is at every moment, but you also have to know where every car around you is and try to anticipate their next move, no matter how stupid and irrational it may be. Do you think that between the truck driving school mill and 6 weeks with a trainer that you are going to learn everything you need to know? Again, not by a long shot. The best you can hope to get in that time is a half-*ss grasp of the bare basics. After that, we just have to pray you have enough brains, common sense and survival instinct to carry you through while you learn the rest from experience. I've been driving for just over a year, I am *still* learning and I expect I have many more years of learning ahead of me yet. So my advice to you is to bring 6 changes of clothes you can work in and you don't mind getting greasy, dirty and nasty. Bring a pair of good solid work shoes/boots. Bring your toiletries and a towel. Bring a pillow, blanket and a fitted sheet. A coat if it is cold. Any medications you may be taking. A notepad and pen for taking notes. Bring a book if you want. Everything else- LEAVE IT AT HOME! At least until after you upgrade and get your own truck. - On several occasions when driving into unfamiliar situations, the trainer was too busy on the phone to offer guidance. For example, when driving south on I-35 through Kansas, we came into a toll booth, followed immediately by a right exit toward OKC. I took the toll booth on the left (I should have taken it on the right and his experience should have led him to inform me of this) and then had to make an unsafe lane change to accomodate the exit. In addition, I was unfamiliar with the system this toll road uses, where you get a ticket when you get on and pay cash at the end. Toll roads where I live operate with the driver tossing money into a hopper at every toll plaza, so this system was new, and between that and operating the truck, I had questions on how it worked. The trainer couldn't be bothered to get off the phone for the situation. Instead, he shook his head at the unsafe lange change. 1) I-35 through Kansas is NOT one of our more heavily travelled routes. I have yet to take I-35 through Kansas and I've been here a year. 2) We, as drivers, are NOT walking Motor Carrier Road Atlases YOU were driving- it is YOUR job to look ahead and plan ahead. Regardless, the situation is one that most of us have found ourselves in at one time or another. You proceed carefully and deal with it. Handy tip for your future...You are in a big truck, governed at a speed below the interstate speed limit in most states. You should be staying to the right except to pass. So that begs the question of how it is you ended up in the left toll booth to begin with. And staying right is something they should have taught you in truck driving school. This sort of too-busy-to-guide situation happened over and over. While it's true a solo driver needs to be able to navigate unfamiliar situations unaided, it's also true that a smart solo driver will turn off his radio or iPod and get off the phone to minimize distraction while he works, which I did. Then why where there multiple reports of you driving with your Ipod playing and with you listening to it via earphones? I heard about that not only from the trainer but also from another driver who witnessed it. I bit the trainer for it also because it's not only a violation of company policy but also of DOT regulations. I'd have ripped them off your head and chunked them out the window if I'd caught you doing that in my truck. However, I couldn't shut off my trainer's incessant (and repetative, as he told the story for the 25th time to yet another person on his contact list) chattering, and found myself distracted in ways that made the situation very dangerous. If the trainer chattering on the phone was a "dangerous distraction" for you then you need to seriously consider choosing another career. I know how he chatters and, believe me, that is nothing compared to some of the driving situations I have found myself in over the past year. And it's also true that part of a trainer's job is (should be) to point out to the trainee what to look for and offer specific tips in situations that turn up repeatedly, such as common travel corridors like I-35, or specific large customers' docks and yards. I know there will always be unfamiliar situations; that doesn't mean that the trainer can't offer the benefit of his experience where he has it. Isn't that the point? As I said, I-35 is one of our lesser used routes. As for docks and yards- with many of them it's a new game every time you go there. I swear I think some of them have betting pools and stack up junk and trash around the yards and docks and make bets on whether we can get the job done without them having to come out there and move it. I'd also like to point out that giving the trainee the opportunity to size up the situation and engineer a solution/answer, rather than "spoon feeding" them, is an important part of training and their learning process. It gives the trainer insight as to how you are thinking and how best to approach faulty thinking. Besides, quite frankly, many people just have to make the mistake before they learn what does and doesn't work. The third thing I'd like to point out is that on that last day, you were supposed to get up at the same time the trainer did so that you could check in at the receiver. Instead you stayed up very very late and then would not get up when he tried to wake you. According to reports, you did not get up until 11am, AFTER the truck had been unloaded and the truck had left the receiver's. This was pretty much the last straw for the trainer. This was not a family vacation to the Grand Canyon in the ole Buick. This was on-the-job training. It is not the trainer's responsibility to take away your toys, set your alarm clock for you and impose a bedtime on you. You are an adult, this is not KinderCare.....'nuff said. - Given that I was having trouble with turns, it seemed to me reasonable to expect that a trainer would say something like, "Okay, you're going to turn left up here, and the way you want to set it up is this way," or, "On this right turn up ahead you want to do it this other way." On the ONE occasion when my trainer offered pre-turn guidance, he offered it too late to be of any use and consequently, I screwed up the turn. Many times you can't tell precisely how you are going to attack a turn until you get right up on it. You have to be able to see the intersection, see what obstacles are present, see how much room you have and where, etc. If you anticipate needing guidance ASK FOR IT!! Don't assume it's just going to be given. It says KLLM on the truck...not PTN (Psychic Truckers Network). - I asked at one point for assistance in pre-trip trip planning. Everyone says it's important, and I agree, but in driving school we never actually received any serious instruction in it. I wanted a thumbnail sketch of the differences between a motor carrier atlas and a regular atlas, a rough idea of what pitfalls to look for and how to use the tools available to me to minimize them, and what to do if I saw a problem. I was told that we "wouldn't have time." In fact, the reason we didn't have time was because it would have interfered with the trainer's chatter time. This is more the trucking school's fault because they are supposed to teach this (mine required 8hrs of trip planning instruction). But, this should also be covered during training and I don't know why he would have told you he wouldn't go over it with you because he went over it with me. He had me do the trip planning from about the third week onward. - I felt like I didn't have enough room on the truck for my personal effects. While it's true that space is tight, and I didn't bring much in the way of space-consuming objects (no coolers, televisions, etc), it's also true that I had to cram all of my gear onto my bunk or behind the shotgun seat for the first week and a half I was on the truck. When I replaced my suitcase with pillow cases, I still had to sleep with all my clothes on the bunk. For someone who is 6'4" and sleeps on his stomach, this isn't easy. Welcome to training. It is a truck...not the Marriot. It is also, more importantly, for all intents and purposes, the driver's/trainer's second home and you were a guest in that home. ALL of us trainees had to live through the close quarters and lack of space for our stuff on the truck during training. It is 6 weeks...not eternity. Cowboy up. - While it's true that I used to work in the adult entertainment industry and have no objection to people who consume pornography as part of their entertainment interests, I thought it was inappropriate at best that my trainer stopped the truck at the porn store in Sanger, Texas, so he could look for his favorite actress (away from the prying eyes of his wife) without even the courtesy of asking my consent. I discussed this with one person who said, well, when else would he go? My response is that his inability to stop at a porn store privately isn't my problem; his next trainee might be someone who feels very differently about adult entertainment than I do. There is, to me, a very clear line between what I do on my truck when I am solo and what I do on my truck when there is another employee there who can't easily separate himself from the situation. You were a guest in his "home". He is an adult. He did not force you to go into the store with him or to share whatever purchases he may have made with him. Are you wanting to learn how to drive a truck or are you just planning on writing the Ms. Manner's Guide To Trucking Etiquette? He stopped at porn stores when I was on the truck and, while porn is not my thing and I don't indulge in it, this habit of his never bothered me one bit. He never pushed it on me or expected me to talk about it with him. I'm a bit confused here. Because from what I am hearing from you, you got on HIS truck, wanted him to spoon feed you through situations AND wanted him to give up what little semblance of a life/hobby/recreation we as truckers are able to eke out, out here on the road, while you got the luxury of keeping your head jammed up in your computer rather than doing what you needed to do in order to ensure you received the greatest benefit possible from your training. I really think you are going to be happiest with a local job. I think that if you have to physically get up, leave your house and travel to another location to get to work that you will be more apt to view it as a real job and maybe regulate yourself a bit better. And I'm not saying that to be mean, some people are just like that and that is what works best for them. If you are serious about pursuing a career as an OTR then the best thing you can do for yourself is to leave the laptop and iPod at home next time you go to training. TA has "pay to play" internet access if you absolutely must check your e-mail (although I happen to know you have both e-mail and web browsing on your phone). The trucks have radios. Learn to rough it for a while. I think right now, you expect too much. I wish you the best man. You are not a bad guy, you just still have some growing up to do in the sense that you need to learn to act instead of react. RT
rn, let us know how KLLM treats your complaint. You should have been given 6 weeks to learn how to make wide turns, and back in's, your log books 3 weeks is not fair! You two mush not been getting along? You should have called dispatch and ask for another trainer. KLLM has some good trainer's and a few NOT so good trainers. Keep in touch.
As RT said, there were errors made by both rnb and his trainer. A lot of newbies don't take a minute to understand things from a trainer's point of view. May I direct your attention to this thread: Some Thoughts On Training From a Former Trainer
Wow! RT69 gets the info! After hearing what RT said, I can see you two were not on the same page. The Trainer should have given you a hot tip on what's expected and what's not during training. I left my computer home when I went to Jackson. I turned my cell phone off when driving. I hope you leaned from this experience. Good luck to you..........tj
If that is Mega / UA / NASE (National Association of the Self Employed) PLEASE dont buy that. It's not Major Med insurance. They are under investigation and continue to be sued regularly. Google Mega if that's what it is. (I'm an Insurance Broker)
Road Toad, great post. My husband and I were curious to hear the other side of the story, because we were sure that there was one. My husband doesn't use a computer, but as I was reading him the story, he was saying that if he were a trainer, he wouldn't allow a computer to be brought along. When I read him what you said about ripping off the guy's IPOD, he laughed, because he also would have done the same thing.
I pretty much told him this when he called me about the trainer sending him home. I told him that he needed to call and rationally and diplomatically present his side as I felt that a personality conflict was part of the issue. I also advised him that he needed to do this immediately if he hoped to try to get a second chance and another trainer as it would be easier for them to just forget about him once he was home. Instead he stated that he was going to write a scathing letter to HR once he got home and was pissed off and hostile. I advised him that *if* he hoped to salvage the situation and try for another trainer that this approach was not going to get him anywhere and, in fact, would seal his fate as he would then be putting them on the defensive. He chose not to listen. HR and the head of training got his letter, sent a copy of it to the trainer, they talked about it and that was it. The trainer is still a trainer and rnbwpnt is still at home and unemployed. Conversely, nascartruckingal had an issue with her first trainer, called the head of training, rationally and diplomatically explained the issue, requested a different trainer....AND GOT ONE. It is all about communication. There was a failure on the part of BOTH trainer and trainee to communicate regarding problems in rnbwpnt's situation. Because of this the problems built up until things exploded and got hostile. YOU MUST COMMUNICATE!!! As I said: It says KLLM on the side of the truck.... Not PTN (Psychic Trucker's Network)... Your trainer CANNOT READ YOUR MIND and know when something bothers you. RT
I'm not sure who it is but I am covering all my bases and researching all avenues. BTW...if anyone is researching insurance, unless you want someone calling you every 5 minutes trying to "high pressure sale" you some insurance...DO NOT GO ON the eInsurance website. You have to enter your contact info and not 2 minutes after I hit submit they started calling me....seven times in 2 hours...until I got seriously hostile with them. RT
There is a fair amount to learn from, and I will consider, but I'll point out a few of the most obvious responses. Yeah, but who do we deal with to get them made? New employees don't know this, and so it's a fair question. That isn't what the training director told me when I asked him at the end of orientation. He said all trainers are supposed to have it, but some do not. Er, no, because I didn't have any. He likewise never communicated any concerns about my sleeping patterns to me. He never once asked if I felt safe to drive; apparently he simply made this judgment by himself without ever asking me about it, or communicating his expectations. For someone who claims to need only five hours of sleep at a time himself, he sure seems pretty sure of what other people need. Your love is appreciated. Again, lack of communication. In fact, as I recall, I had already been up most of the day -- he'd been driving all day. Claiming I hadn't gotten enough sleep at the *end* of the day seems a bit bogus to me. The trainer said point-blank it wasn't a problem if I kept one ear open while driving to listen for blow-outs. Once he communicated this expectation, I complied with it any time I was driving. If it's not okay at all, all he had to do was say so and I'd have lived. Again, the main point I'm seeing in what you're discussing is communication. It is unfair, in my opinion, to expect a trainee to comply with expectations that have never been communicated. Any time he clearly communicated an expectation with me, he had only to communicate it one time and I either complied or asked questions to understand his expectation so I could comply, at least as far as I'm aware. Stayed up late doing what? We slept at the receiver, where there was nothing to do except stare at the trucks, and I recall going to sleep before he did. Again, communicate the expectation: I sleep considerably harder than he does apparently, and I am perfectly capable of sleeping in a moving vehicle. If he tried to get me up he must have done it in a voice that didn't register. On previous occasions, when he did the same thing and I heard him, I got up immediately. "Hey, dude, start setting your alarm clock to get up, I need you up at the same time I'm up, and I get up 30 minutes/one hour/whatever before appointment." Not all of us magically know this stuff, and training preparation at trucking schools vary widely, and that should be expected in a training situation. And I do still agree that KLLM is a decent company if you can get through the training. I still stick to my belief that the training ritual is something to be gotten through, a rite of passage. Maybe next time.
