No jakes, how to slow down on hills?

Discussion in 'Questions From New Drivers' started by jayfarmlaw, Dec 11, 2021.

  1. LtlAnonymous

    LtlAnonymous Road Train Member

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    Worked for 18 long years out here. Only had to have someone else drive it down a couple dozen times.
     
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  3. Allow Me.

    Allow Me. Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

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    I always stopped at the brake check area, got out and actually checked my brakes before descending. In the "old days" prior to self adjusting brakes, I would crawl under and manually adjust them. Sometimes I did it before, maybe 20 mi before. This is on the west coast, Donner, Cabbage, grapevine, Sherman etc. You want max braking power descending obviously. The other thing is, the only way brakes can cool off is by air, so when the brakes are applied, the shoes are against the drums and cannot cool down. So brakes need to be released so air can get in there and cool them. If you notice, most downgrades have a 25-30 mph speed limit. Much easier to slow down at a slower speed. The speed limit on Hwy 68 W.B. from Kingman, Az. to Bullhead City is/was 65mph when I lived there, which I thought was strange. That's a nasty 6 % with a traffic light at the bottom at the end of a curve. A jake and 5th gear, your best friend descending.
     
  4. tscottme

    tscottme Road Train Member

    Without a Jake you MUST, MUST, MUST start at the top of the hill slower, not equal, not not much faster than the jake equipped trucks, but SLOWER speed to account for the hill. You begin your descent at a slower speed and a gear slow enough to maintain that speed. As for generating heat by braking, the best result is from not letting your speed build, at all. Every MPH you add will generate energy that is converted to heat at a square of that speed change.
    Kinetic Energy = 1/2 X mass X velocity SQUARED. If you let your speed build 5 MPH the speed portion of the equation increase by 5 X 5 MPH or 25, not just the 5 mph.

    Some drivers prefer the on/off, on/off braking method where speed builds, they brake, then they release the brakes and speed builds. This is how to set your brakes on fire. Each time your speed builds you are introducing far more energy (speed increase multiplied by itself) and you have to turn that extra energy into heat, that's all brakes do. They convert kinetic energy into heat. If your top-of-the-hill speed is slow enough and your gear selection is low enough your brakes are hardly even in use. If you doubt your speed is slow enough or if you need a lower gear, change them earlier, not later going down the hill. In the on/off method your brakes are not released and being air-cooled long enough to shed all of the extra heat you are generating, remember the energy increases by the square of your speed increase. It's even better to VERY, VERY, VERY lightly apply brake pressure all the way down the hill than use the on/off method.
     
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  5. okiedokie

    okiedokie Road Train Member

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    In this neck of the Woods we'd roll down all the windows. It's all about air friction.
     
  6. AModelCat

    AModelCat Road Train Member

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    Engine fan on absorbs a little energy too does it not? Around 40-50 hp or so.
     
  7. John E.

    John E. Light Load Member

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    Best method that always worked well for me.
    No 1. Have all your brakes adjusted fully as { Allow Me} has suggested.
    No. 2. Gear down to the right gear for the amount of grade you are descending.
    No. 3. Apply about 18 lbs. of air pressure on your trailer brake, Less if you can hold it back without heating your drums.
    No.4. Don't pump your brakes, leave the same amount of pounds of pressure on your trailer brakes all the way down the incline.
    You won't heat your drums on your trailer this way, centrifugal force is in play. At the end of the incline you can get out and put your bare hand on your trailer drums and they will be cool.
    I know, sounds crazy. I was taught this by an older instructor at Schneider National when I was about 40 or so yrs old.
    So, I'm running an Excavator into Fort St. John in Northern BC. Came upon a 17% grade signs up everywhere to gear down.
    I think of this Guy back in Rochester , Minn. and the conversation we had a few months before.
    I was reluctant to try His suggested recommendation.
    So, I did what He ask me to do.
    I stopped at the bottom of the runoff went to my trailer and put my bare hand on the drum and jerked it back quickly, expecting to get my hand burnt.
    Drums were not hot, just warm. Yeah, I learned something that day, I have been using this method for many yrs. since.
    My trailer and tractor doesn't need to be lined very often since I've used His method.
    This Gentlemen may have saved my life a few times over the last 30 yrs.
    Best method I have ever found to work for me.
     
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  8. bryan21384

    bryan21384 Road Train Member

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    You reduce your speed prior to going down.....that way you don't beat up your truck as much.
     
  9. JoeyJunk

    JoeyJunk Road Train Member

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    My turdbox i just bought doesnt have Jakes. Lower than normal gear and stab breaking has worked fine so far. Only smoked them once. First time in 20 years. My New engine will have them. Made sure that was in the quote.

    I miss the jakes on the 2018 Cascadia I drove. They were impressive.
     
  10. LtlAnonymous

    LtlAnonymous Road Train Member

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    Yeah, I drove for a company who specced all their tractors without engine brakes because it was cheaper. Five long years of stab braking like it was still 1972.
     
  11. kemosabi49

    kemosabi49 Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

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    I drove a truck for 4 years before I ever drove one with a Jake. At first, I started down a hill too fast, but when I saw the smoke coming from the trailer tandems i was lucky to hit an upgrade and get off of the road. Sat there 2 hours and the drums were still too hot to touch. This was going down Tehachapi on 58 west in Cali. I also learned to try a be in a gear low enough that you never have to apply more than 10 PSI pressure to your brakes.
     
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