Paperless logs

I agree to those terms ScareCrow. And I will be using DDL as well. Im sure TT wont mind acting as a witness and saving this convo somwhere.
I will post my first day training, so it can be marked.

But in addition allow me to say this if all Professional Drivers ran legal the industry would change accordingly,they would have no choice. The way it is now is the Professional Drivers are running Illegal to meet the standards that the shippers/recievers have set up, when in reality it should be the Professional Drivers that set the standards. Yeah I know pipe dreams, but only because it has not been made a standard for Professional Drivers we have chosen to adhere to theirs.

See ya in a year

 

Ahhh...can't wait to be basking in that warm Carribean sun...

Seriously though, you do make a valid point about the professional driver and how he should be the one to set the standard. Unfortunately, it's a situation that will most likely never remedy itself. While I have never been pushed to run illegal, I have made it known to a dispatcher or two that if they give me the run, I'll make it there on time regardless. This was usually preceeded by a conversation regarding a "hot load" that had to be there and if I couldn't make it on time to say so right then. I'm not saying it's right, nor am I saying every driver does this. I'm just saying that at some time or another every driver will be faced with this dilemma and that 9 times out of 10 given the work ethic of 95% of America's drivers, they will get the job done. Does that mean said driver will put himself or others in dire jeopardy? Most of the time not. Most of the time these "hot loads" I'm talking about could be done with very little fudging and sometimes no fudging at all. But when it comes to feeding, clothing, and otherwise providing for themselves or their families, most drivers out there will roll the dice and take the chance on getting caught/fined/shut down/in an accident/(your worst case scenario here) for sake of the money they'll make on the trip. As it's been mentioned in other threads and as I'm sure you're well aware, we as OTR drivers are paid on performance, not hours worked. I honestly hope you do prove me wrong and become the first 100% absolutely legal (paper) log running professional driver in America, but I'm telling you man, the odds are not in your favor! Shoot, I know guys who drove for companies with paperless logs who found ways to cheat it because, in one guy's case, the 2300 miles at 24 cpm (back in 2003) he was getting wasn't nearly enough to provide for his wife and five kids.

Like I said, I hope you do prove me wrong, and I WILL hold up to my end of the bargain. Just make sure to be honest and up front. I won't be the "I-told-you-so" type.

Just remember to keep them tires turnin' and that diesel burnin', but get there safe to keep on earnin'! :smt033

 

I most certainly understand the points that were stated and I even tho have a family will adhere to the standards, that will allow me to move the "hot loads" without fudging at all. Even as a Newbie Im aware of the reasons for having to make up time, and if most look at it in the way they would if "Joe Boss" was sitting in the P-Seat most wouldnt have to fudge and most would be early

The Family will enjoy your Gift

Have a GREAT and BLESSED Night Brother

 

It's not so much that they are going to it, but the fact that they see the writing on the wall. It's going to be mandated by the Government. Companies like the one that I work for, are jumping ahead of the pack and getting started in converting their drivers now.

Parking is a problem, with it being more of an issue is some areas of the country than others. But I have always been one to plan my stops. Experienced drivers know where and when they will most likely have problems finding a parking spot.

If I know that I am going into an area where I will not likely find parking, I stop as short of where I am going as possible, and take my break so that when the time comes to deliver, I can go in and get right back out.

I don't know how long you have been driving, but there are several ways that people define the "golden days" of trucking. My definition of it is simple.

Drivers used to command respect from the public, because they set GOOD examples in driving. They honored the laws, and drove with some common sense. Since deregulation, a whole new breed of driver has emerged, that has become completely lawless, disrespectful towards others on the road, and has enraged the public against the industry.

To put it plainly, the lawless in our ranks have brought this down on our heads. People are tired of reading stories of death and destruction, and finding out that the truck driver involved, was violating one or more of the rules that we are to follow, that is supposed to keep us alert, safe, and to prevent the kind of tragedies that we read almost on a daily basis.

Interesting....

I personally know three people, who have lost everything they worked a lifetime for, by playing those kind of games. They were all decent people. One man was just months from retirement. Another lost his wife and children to divorce, when his wife couldn't deal with all the heat of dealing with the criminal charges that he had to fight for three years. Neither of them drive a truck any longer.

The first man was asleep in his bed, having arrived at home two hours previous, with his tractor and trailer parked along the side of his house, when a drunk driver missed a curve in the road, and slammed into it. The Sheriff's Department called in the Motor Carrier Division, which was standard practice when a commercial vehicle is involved in any serious wreck. That officer asked for the driver's logbook, even though he was not driving the truck at the time, and it went downhill from there.

Because the trailer was not a full 15 feet off of the traveled portion of the roadway, it was not considered legally parked. The legal bills to fight law suits filed on behalf of the passenger in the truck who died instantly, along with a defective rear bumper, wiped out all of the man's savings, his retirement, and he lost his home that was paid for.

Now I suppose that people who have nothing, have nothing to lose, but it's not a game out here, and the almighty hand of Uncle Sam is going to prove that point, until each and every one of us get it into our heads.

Those are not simple things. They are outright falsifications, and currently considered serious violations. All it is going to take, is a DOT reportable accident that you become involved with, to take that kind of game playing to the next level, and you're not going to like what the other side does to escalate the game in THEIR favor.

A field investigator will jam a microscope up your hind end, and will go over every last moment of your last eight days, and the pain you feel will be long lasting. If someone dies or is seriously injured, an Attorney will come after you for whatever you have to lose.

And you know the worst part? The chances are almost 100% that the company you work for will cut you loose, and throw you to the wolves, and deny any knowledge of your existence from that moment on.

Have you ever thought of these things?

This much I will offer you. The HOS Rules are not written with safety in mind, and they absolutely need to be changed, but because I know what can happen if I don't follow them, I stick as closely to them as I possibly can. The only way I will violate them is if I have absolutely no choice whatsoever, and it will be there in black and white, with an explanation in my logbook as to why I went into violation.

Just this past Sunday night, I had planned to stop a half hour before I ran out of hours, and a car fire that closed the interstatefor fourty five minutes, ten miles from my exit, derailed that well laid plan. I went into violation sitting there in the middle of the road. I didn't cheat. I logged it and I explained it.

You see, I used to play those games at one time to. The thing I always discovered over time, was that once you cross that line, you are then expected to do it all the time. I never liked that.

These days, I am not under any pressure to do it, and in fact I could be fired for doing it. I like that. Why? Because even though it may mean that I will have to shut it down 30 miles from my house, at least if the worst and the most unexpected should happen, and a drunk driver slides through a light and slams into the side of my truck two miles from my house, which by the way is a constant risk for me, because two miles from my house is a Boulevard that is filled with nothing but bars and nightclubs, I can hand over that logbook with confidence that I am legal, have every legal right to be where I am at that moment, and all the microscopes in the world will not make any difference in the world, because I am squeaky clean for those previous eight days that they will check.

I don't worry about an open scale. I don't worry about being pulled over and asked for that logbook. It's always current. I am never pressured by my company to violate the rules....ever.

I love it, and I welcome those electronic logs. They are only going to make my working life even easier to deal with.

 

If these are the things you are dealing with on a consistent basis, then you are working for the wrong company. I would never work for anyone that would subject me to those kind of conditions.

I can tell you that since these latest rules have went into effect, that I have not violated the rules, and previous to that, we all had the split sleeper rule to utilize to allow us to remain legal and to either split up our time to remain productive, or to get to a place to get some rest if that was needed.

I am absolutely concerned for newbies on this issue, because they endure more pressure than most, to violate the rules. Some companies threaten them with their jobs, knowing that they will have a difficult time finding another with little experience under their belts.

My advice is simply to resist kindly and without arguing when this occurs. Simply state and get it on record, easy enough to do when you communicate via electronicly, the fact that you have rules that you have to follow, and let them know that it is up to them to remedy the situation and to dispatch you according to what you have to work with.

If it is a constant battle, then get out of the situation as soon as possible, and seek a carrier that takes the rules more seriously. There are plenty of good companies to work for that will follow the rules, avoid the receivers that are known to screw up productivity, and will do whatever it takes to make the job as easy as possible on the driver.

 

Every driver has the ability to remedy it for themselves.

This is a far cry from what you were offering up until now. You're now admitting that you violate the rules, and do it by choice.

Do you know what a "hot load" is? A hot load results from someone not doing their job. Someone failed to plan. Someone screwed up and took one too many loads. Someone failed to order the product on time.

Then to save their skin, they will find a dupe that will take it, run with it, take all the chances of getting caught in violation because of their lack in doing their own job, and will laugh at you behind your back, if and when it happens.

All work ethics aside, there is a fundamental issue at stake here. Who is the only person that will likely suffer, if something goes wrong and they are caught? Very few company employees that sit behind a desk have been prosecuted for dispatching illegally. There are millions of drivers that have suffered economic harm, from a citation that they have had to pay, all the way to losing all, for crossing that line.

It's not a dilemma for me. I will not entertain the request. What I will do, is advise someone when I CAN get it there legally, and take the load under those circumstances.

And if you load one bullet into a six-shooter, and spin it, then put the gun to your head, and pull the trigger, you have a better than average chance that it will click, but who in their right mind would do it?

Don't you understand that there are wiser decisions that can be made, in the choice of companies to work for, where that is not a necessary risk to ever consider? Even better, there are companies that consider your safety as important to them, as you do.

Let's say that you are down to five bucks in your pocket, and you are hungry, so you walk to a convenience store. When you enter the store, you see they sell lottery tickets. Now you could take that five bucks and buy yourself some food to satisfy your hunger, or you might say to yourself that if you buy five chances on the lottery drawing that night, that you'll be able to feed yourself for life.

What kind of an idiot would buy the lottery tickets, instead of spending that money to eat?

And I hate to harp, but what is that money going to be worth to you, if you get caught and are fined. You will have worked for nothing. What if you are involved in an accident, and have to hire an expensive Attorney, or worse cannot afford one, and you go to jail? Where will your family be then?

These are things that smart people think about.

A moment of selfishness or risk taking can result in a loss that you may well cannot afford to lose.

 

Turbo, you have made some very interesting and valid points. I am impressed that you run the way that you do. There really is nothing I can say to rebute your comments in an intelligent manor. All I want to say for the record is that I have never worked for a company who mandated that I run illegally. I know those companies exsist, but I'll never drive their trucks. Also, I won't jump at the chance to run illegally, but there have been situations when I opted to for my own personal gain, be that getting home tonight instead of tomorrow, getting more miles for the week, etc. Unlike you, sir, I could not sit 30 minutes from my house for 10 hours. I tip my hat. Just please tell me that you have not always throughout your career done this. If so, I find that very hard to believe. I have a lot of respect for the things you say, Turbo, on this and many other threads, but I find it hard to believe you were always the 100% compliant driver that you are today. My father has over 40 years under his tires and with that over 8 million safe miles, and even he admits to having fudged his books back in his younger days....especially when it came to getting home to see his wife and kids.

 

I don't like it at all, and so I do my best to avoid that being an issue. The one time this year that it was, it was completely unavoidable. It's just the way my hours fell that week.

No, I won't tell you that, because the fact is, I have in my past thrown caution to the wind, and cheated. It's been quite a few years since I have, however.

My wake up call came on the day that a slew of cops rolled onto the property of a company that I was leased to at the time in Dalton, Ga., when about a dozen police vehicles rolled into the yard, where a driver and I had arrived at about the same time. I had been coming in from the north, and he had just come in from Atlanta. We were engaged on the CB in conversation when they came in because we were good friends. We were both equally baffled as to what was up with that. They all pulled up to where his truck was. It was around midnight.

Of course, I immediately went over there to see what the hell was going on. Long story short, a witness had seen him run over a man that was laying on the side of the road. Not to demean the man, but he was a street bum, and was passed out apparently from alcohol, and may have in fact been already dead. There was never an autopsy performed on him, if you can believe that.

The witness called the cops, giving them the license plate number of the trailer, and they basically tried to catch him all the way back to Ringgold, Georgia. He was ahead of them all the way.

The Motor Carrier Enforcement was called in as well, and one of the guys to accost him as he stepped out of the truck. The logbook was the first thing he asked him for.

What he did that caused him so much pain from that minute on, was his decision to have dropped the miles from Ringgold, Georgia to Atlanta and back. He couldn't log them legally. He had hit his 70 hours, earlier in the day, and the company would have repowered it from Ringgold, but they had a rather stiff fee for doing that, per our contract, and he didn't want to give up the revenue. He had also already closed out that log for the day, and had signed it, as if he had ended his day at 5:00 pm that day.

The minute this was discovered, that driver was in the fight of his life, because this omission on his part to show on that legal document, was used as evidence, in an attempt to prove he was covering up a crime, and an admission of sorts that he knew he had run over the man. It was the most outrageous assumption I have ever witnessed. He left that yard in the back of a squad car, and for the next three long years he fought the investigation, that was finally dropped. Two things saved him. They didn't do an autopsy, and someone finally believed the driver, in that there was no way he could have seen this guy laying next to the sidewalk in the dark. It was pitch black, with no lighting whatsoever, and in a right hand curve.

This was the man whose wife divorced him, took their children, and moved a thousand miles away to find a better daddy for them. She couldn't deal with it.

And you would be right. I don't think I ever meant to imply that I was. I just don't take those kind of chances anymore. I plan to avoid having to be tempted to do it, if at all possible. In the instance where I can't avoid it, I swallow real hard, and deal with it. And by that, I mean I take the break.

One other time this year, I was basically forced into having to take a 34 hour break 3 hours from my house, due to a customer changing the terms of the delivery enroute. I didn't like it, and my company made it up to me very nicely immediately following the event, but I endured that hardship with my teeth gritted, to keep from alienating a customer for the company.

I'm currently GPS tracked every fifteen minutes. They audit EVERY log, EVERY month. Step outside that 15 minute window, and I'm written up. Too many of those, and I am toast.

Those are the terms I accepted when I took the job. Do I like it? Most of the time, yes. I'd be less than honest, if I didn't offer that it comes with it's teeth gritting frustrations at times too. I'm currently seeking an estimate for some rather extensive dental work.

The thing is, when this is instituted for the rest of the industry, and you can get ready, because it IS coming to us all, I will have been through all of the nail biting moments, and I will then be able to amuse myself (I'm sorry, but it will be funny) listening to the CB conversations and the outrage that will surely dominate the airwaves when it comes down the pike.

 

It's crap like this which proves the need for lawsuit reform. No way should a man lose his house over something like this.

 

The man was wrong even if his truck had been parked correctly his books were fudged and when evaluated all books can be found to be right or wrong. I for one wont make the time to figure out how to be wrong.

The entire point of this thread is Paperless Logs will improve the industry it will make the industry change.

The shippers will have to start ordering early as the Driver will not be able to fudge without him and the carrier getting in hot water.

The dispatchers will not be able to assign HOT LOADS because the HOS will right there and unchangable.

I thionk most IMPORTANTLY is that newbies will not have the pressure to do something illegal when they dont want to.

Furthermore when the load is assigned its already been figured as to time needed so if one does it as it is given one should not have to fudge correct?

Once again I say bring them on