Prime, Inc. - Springfield, Mo.?

Discussion in 'Prime' started by skullitor, Aug 22, 2005.

  1. TurboTrucker

    TurboTrucker Road Train Member

    Feb 23, 2005
    Rossville, Georgia
    That is exactly the point I strive to drive into the ground over and over. Lease/Purchase programs are only going to make the CARRIER money. The poor Joe out there behind the wheel is going to work for peanuts, if they actually make enough at all to consider them to have been paid a DIME in spendable income, when all is said and done.

    Most people wind up in debt to the IRS. Most file bankruptcy. If they have assets before they began the arrangement, they do not wind up with them post arrangement. They are often repossessed by the time the driver figures out that "this thing ain't gonna work out".

    Do you want to hear the trend that is currently going on within the industry, and is rapidly spreading from carrier to carrier like a virus? I read this on Thursday, and just about popped a vein over it. I'm going to offer this in another more detailed post over the weekend, because it encompasses more than just these type of arrangements.

    Lawyers are scum. We all know this to be true. If they are working on behalf of YOUR interests, then you might benefit from utilizing their services. Someone came up with a new low, and one that just about makes me want to hit someone. I'm quite sure that a lawyer came up with it.

    There are carriers that are now requiring employees, those that lease trucks from their company, and those who lease to their company, to sign Powers of Attorney that contain clauses that allow the company to attach liens to personal property that is owned by the driver, to attempt to recover money that the company claims is owed to them. This can include liens on a driver's home, their cars, or anything else of value.

    It is more imperative than EVER, for anyone signing on with a carrrier, to READ and UNDERSTAND what they are signing when it is shoved under your nose. They prey on the misinformed and the ignorant, and worse, they are BANKING on it.
    Traveler51 and sayter_74 Thank this.
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  3. Ryn

    Ryn Bobtail Member

    Mar 5, 2006
    Talk! Is'...A Younger.Female..Trainee'
    Had! some Rough! Moments.....In A TruckStop!!
    She Bolted' From The Prime Inc..Tractor..
    Trainer .....Hands On .........Trainee..
    A..Driver with One Year Spoke About This' ...
    May 2004... :(
    So' ...What Can You Say...He Said Her Frist Mame( m )
    Attended Feb 8 th 2004- Date She Bolted From Prime ..
    Truck That Nite...AT.....A....Truck Stop!!
    She was Pretty -Savy..In Class,,
    Any Returns..AnyOne...
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2009
  4. kc0rey

    kc0rey Medium Load Member

    Jul 5, 2005
    Macomb, IL
    While I "sort of" understand what your question is Robert, perhaps you could be a little more specific and try complete sentances.

    There have been several instances of female drivers being raped by other Munson drivers over the years. I remember in 1989 a Munson driver was gang raped in one of our fuel stops (Munson) while 8 or 9 of our drivers watched.
    We all need to remember that companies like Prime (and obviously Munson) will hire anybody and often scum of the earth is included.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2009
  5. TurboTrucker

    TurboTrucker Road Train Member

    Feb 23, 2005
    Rossville, Georgia

    And to think, we're fighting in Afghanistan, to dethrone the Taliban, who are known for the same behavior....

    I must live a VERY sheltered life, because I've never been anywhere near this kind of behavior, and I personally think I would have no hesitation in taking a claw hammer to the skull of anyone I caught doing such a thing.
  6. Redneck

    Redneck BANNED

    Dec 5, 2005
    I have thought about this before and am still thinking about it. I almost went and let a third party recruiter talk me out of it for a real scam one time.

    I mean it looks pretty good, and alot of driver's I have talked to like it as well. Make me believe this is not a good idea...

    I know a lease only helps a company, but how are these driver's I have talked to making it?

    Lets here it give me something to make me believe this is no good.:smt065
  7. PackRatTDI

    PackRatTDI Licensed to Ill

    Jul 15, 2006
    El Chuco, Tejas
    I've never heard a satisfactory answer to this question either. What makes their lease-purchase program any better or worse than any other company sponsored lease purchase program?
  8. wonderman

    wonderman Light Load Member

    Aug 10, 2006
    to quote the Simpsons " We love the customer they are our CHUM" read that stuff really carefully they arent losing money on those packages anything happens in their favor and they own you.........Wonderman
  9. lost boy

    lost boy Bobtail Member

    Jul 23, 2006
    Driving a truck with their name on the door. Pulling their trailer with freight for their customers. Working and getting home when they say. All this sound like being a company driver. Oh and don't forget that you also have to make that payment and worry about your own benefits and retirement.
    Seems to me if a person is going to be an independent then he should get his own authority and make a go at it. If not then be a company driver and let the company take care of the driver. Why work as hard as a company driver and end up with nothing to show for it? I know there are success stories but most of the time this is not the case And the driver goes back to being a company driver.
  10. Rawlco

    Rawlco Medium Load Member

    Aug 13, 2006
    Central Maine
    I don't know what prime is paying their lease operators but the scam is that it isn't enough. The reason that so many companies offer this lease purchase scam is to line their own pockets. A lease operator will work harder and break rules to move the freight and do it cheaper than a company driver. This scam benefits only the large company, not the individual driver.

    I'll break down a few numbers for you.

    Fuel $3.00 per gallon, 6 miles per gallon = $0.50 per mile. That is also being generous because many states are closer to $3.50 this week, and you may also get poorer fuel economy. 2700 paid miles per week plus 10% out of route, deadhead, unpaid miles SO you are buying fuel for 3000 miles for about $1500 total per week.

    Truck payments at $600 per week average that is $0.22 per paid mile on a weekly basis. Consider that ANY hometime or vacationtime or short mile weeks will not mean a lower weekly payment and you could raise that number to $0.25 per paid mile for the truck payment alone.

    Driver wage should be at least $0.50 per mile. You can earn in the mid 40 cent per mile range with a year of experience at many carriers. As a self employed person you are responsible for a larger portion of the social security type payroll taxes, and you have no benefits which would cost about a nickel per mile.

    So the three big ticket items come to $1.25 per mile, and I doubt that prime or any other lease company is paying more than $0.90 per mile plus a $0.25 fuel surcharge meaning you are already losing $270 per week.

    Now let's consider some of the other costs. You will be responsible for tires and oil changes at least, and those will come to about $0.05 per mile. You should also put aside $0.05 to $0.10 per mile into a maintenance rainy day savings account. Rebuilding engines and transmissions costs a lot of money and financing them for a truck that you don't own is usually not a good plan. Thats another $300 to $500 per week An owner operator that I have conversed with bought a 2003 truck with 300,000 miles on it last year. Over the course of ONE YEAR he spent $25,000 in maintenance/repair to the truck. With the downtime that caused him the repair costs came to about $0.25 per mile in addition to the $0.20 per mile truck payment. Replacing worn out parts isn't cheap.

    Tolls, lumpers, idleair, parking fees, and other incidental expenses can add up quick. Sure they will claim to pay tolls and lumpers but there will always be times that they can wriggle out of payment. Plan on another $100 per week. Add in bobtail insurance, workers comp insurance, and whatever else the company charges you for and figure $200 to $300 total incidental expenses per week. You may think that is high, but it is always better to plan on high expenses. Put whatever is left over from this budgeted incidental expense category into that maintenance rainy day savings account.

    What have we left out: There are several expenses that MAY or MAY NOT apply to lease purchase programs.trailer payment, business liability insurance (separate from truck), licenses, permits, accounting and legal fees, etc. This could come to $0.10 to $0.25 per mile depending on a lot of factors.

    So to review
    $0.50 per mile, $1500 per week, Fuel
    $0.07 per mile, $200 per week, fuel for uncompensated miles, idling, etc.
    $0.25 per mile, $600 per week, Tractor payment
    $0.50 per mile, $1500 per week, wages, payroll taxes, insurance/benefits
    $0.15 per mile, $400 per week, maintenance and rainy day fund.
    $0.07 per mile, $200 per week, incidental expenses.
    $1.55 per mile, $4400 per week total expenses.

    So now that we know how much it costs let's look at revenue possibilities.
    Lease purchase programs pay $0.90 per mile plus fuel surcharge usually, coming to $1.25 total per mile for 2700 paid miles per week for a grand total of $3375 total revenue. This means a loss of $1025 per week. Take that out of the operators wage and the operator is left with $475 per week before taxes making a whopping $0.17 per mile. This is less than HALF of what they could make as an entry level company driver.

    You might say that you will drive more miles per week. If you can drive 3500 paid miles per week (unlikely) the increased fuel cost and maintenance will raise your total expenses to about $5200 per week ($1.50 per mile) and the revenue to $4375 so you are losing $825 now, or getting only $0.23 per mile to drive the truck. I guess that is close to what some companies start you out at.

    If you are still wanting to try out being an owner operator with no long term commitment go and rent a truck from Ryder or Penske and lease on with a reputable company that pays $1.50 or more per mile. The companies that pay well don't need to dangle a lease-purchase scam to attract drivers.
  11. Redneck

    Redneck BANNED

    Dec 5, 2005
    Thanks Rawlco now that is what I was looking for.....Good Post!
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