Series 60 dual power (370/430 or 430/470) -- how does it work?

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by double yellow, May 12, 2015.

  1. double yellow

    double yellow Road Train Member

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    I rarely use a lot of power and had never really noticed under which circumstances my 2000 12.7 detroit switched from the 370hp setting to the 430hp setting.

    However, I've been trying to diagnose weak jake brakes and it seems the two are related. From what I can tell, if I'm above 35 mph and 1500 rpm, my acceleration boost will usually go from 26-27 to 29-30 psi. My deceleration boost with jakes on high will go from 8-9psi to 12-14psi.

    When the switch happens, it kind of sounds like a clunky solenoid actuates and things suddenly get noticeably less noisy, so I am assuming the turbo goes from partially open wastegate to closed wastegate.

    However, it doesn't always switch when above 1500/35. Sometimes it doesn't switch at all. And sometimes it might switch at a lower rpm.

    The only real problem is I can't ever get full use of my jakes below 35mph. Is this common?

    And more odd than annoying, if I have cruise & jakes on and I go downhill, the jakes will come on high at 2-3mph above set speed, go to low 4-5mph above set speed, & back to high 6-7mph above set speed.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
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  3. dannythetrucker

    dannythetrucker Road Train Member

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    this will give you some idea of adjustable parameters with DDDL software. some of the engine brake parameters are on page 3. unfortunately this doesn't show all the available options for each parameter, but I think you will be able to figure out why, based on these settings, your engine brake is doing different things at different speeds and perhaps engine torques. ftp://ip174-71-25-32.om.om.cox.net/FreeAgent_GoFlex_Drive/Jeffords/Detroit%20MBE%20Engine%20Software/14_changeable.pdf

    it's amazing to me that "drive by wire Detroit" has been around since 1987 and the 12.7 since 1998, yet here we are 2015. DY purchases a jake brake for his truck and they don't even bother to explain to him the adjustable parameters in the ecm which control how that jake brake work and inform him of his options to make it work how he wants it too. ridiculous.
     
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  4. double yellow

    double yellow Road Train Member

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    ####, they couldn't even adjust the odometer correctly. When I had the jakes turned on, I told them that my odometer read 1% high -- that in 10 miles it'll say I went 10.1... Get it back from Detroit and now it reads 2% high...
     
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  5. sdaniel

    sdaniel Road Train Member

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    Always thought the lower horsepower setting was on the pedal , and the higher setting was on cruise. To prompt cruise usage?
     
  6. icsheeple

    icsheeple Trailing the Herd

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    I've noticed a changed in turbo boost pulling hills. It will all of a sudden gain or drop 5-7 psi or more. I figured it was just the wastegate. Scan gauge doesn't show much more than 330hp though.

    Anyone in Kansas City have a bully dog for a detroit? I'd love to play around with the different pre programmed economy and performance tunes they have without having to buy one first. Looks like they run over $2k.
     
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  7. dannythetrucker

    dannythetrucker Road Train Member

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    do some research. I tried to post something but I guess it was TTR inappropriate. you can spend $300, do some learnin' and have a whole lot more than you will ever get with a BD.
     
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  8. icsheeple

    icsheeple Trailing the Herd

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    I'm sure whatever didn't post would have been really useful to me. I'll just stop there. Emissions and TTR don't mix.
     
  9. dannythetrucker

    dannythetrucker Road Train Member

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    emissions is only a small part of ecm settings, it's how your engine works. selling you an engine brake and not giving you options for ecm parameter's is like selling you a printer and not giving you the driver's. let alone the OS.
     
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  10. haycarter

    haycarter Road Train Member

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    That's Always being My understanding as well.........
     
  11. KVB

    KVB Heavy Load Member

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    Yes, usually there is a choice of 4 different ratings. You will typically get 3 single ratings + one dual rating (CruisePower).
    For example you can select 370, 400, or 430 hp single ratings or 370/430 cruise power.
    When cruise power is selected, 370 is what you get on the pedal, 430 when in cruise control.

    This is in the application manual for DDEC4:
    "Cruise Power is an optional engine rating which operates on a higher horsepower curve during
    Cruise Control operation. The ECM provides the higher horsepower when Cruise Control is ON
    and not being overridden with the foot pedal. The additional power provides an incentive for the
    driver to operate in Cruise Control."

    On top of that, there is the possibility, if programmed correctly and hard-wire connections are made, to use (1 or 2) external switches (or relays) to switch between the ratings by connecting digital ECU inputs to Ground.
    Example:
    both switches off: 370 hp
    switch 1 on, switch 2 off: 400 hp
    switch 1 off, switch 2 on: 430 hp
    both switches on: 370/430 cruise-power

    Not very likely, but check if there are any digital inputs programmed as rating switches. If 1 or 2 of them are set up as rating switch, this may causewhat you are describing. Something switching on/off the rating inputs.

    The different ratings should not effect the engine brake behaviour in any way.
     
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