Steep Downhill and you need to downshift

Just wanted to take time to say thank you. This thread, and others you reply to, are a great source of good driving tips. I tried your method of stab braking last week and felt much more in control, and confident.

So, thank you.

 

Ok
Misunderstood. I think when you said "grabbed"
That was what threw me off.
Take care

 

It really doesn't look like a runaway to me. If you watch the back of the trailer as it sweeps past you'll clearly see that A: no break lights on in back and B: no smoke whatsoever. Honestly to me looks like he was at that speed willingly and as he bent Into the turn he thought i'll just break slightly here and Im in the clear and heading down the next straight away. But as has been explained, you don't break through a turn. You break before it. Actually I think they'd probably made it had he not tried that. Would have been hairy and I'm sure if the trainer was sleeping he'd be on the floor after. I also firmly believe the trainer was in the sleeper as I can't see how ANY trainer would have allowed this to get this far out of hand. Well unless it was a swift trainer who probably himself had just 6 months of experience.. Being in the sleeper for this stretch not the wisest decision either.

 

You want not to be braking during a turn whatever happens. Truck or car. I have allowed my ford to load up it's suspension and tire traction on the outside of the curve entering, then added power to hold it through the curve until I reached just past the half point and add much more power to get out of that curve as it unloads itself. When I come out that engine is maxed out on top end if done right.

In a big truck, you want to be off your brakes before you hit the turn and you want to seek the inside most possible path next to the center concrete wall as you ever can. Even a inch from it. Don't touch nothing until halfway. If you feel that trailer start wagging before half, go ahead and lean the inside wheels on the middile. Land the trailer wheels first with about 5 pound trolley application and settle the drives right quick, come off your trolley.

At that point physics will decide if you will success that curve or go off the road. Youve applied a drag on the whole thing and even maybe leaned into the middle if they sloped it to middle wall and get that little bit extra to get through. It might be worth your life to do it. It's going to be a mess.

This scenario is for a complete and utter run out, something on the order of 120 plus. It's basically a final solution because flip a coin. We will see you at the bottom or in hell.

 

i will make mention of something i noticed after reading this thread. there were far too many epiphanies from user advice. the hill climb and descent gear choices? "rule of thumb" suggestions are in the cdl handbook. braking before, not during, a turn? cdl handbook. stab braking? cdl handbook. i studied that thing over 9 years ago. the book is not the be all end all by any means but at the very least if these people had even read it those ideas would already be in their head, as they should. 99% of this stuff is common sense but i understand execution in a panic situation is difficult.

point is - it's disappointing to read threads like this where several drivers lack even BASIC out of the handbook knowledge. i see it frequently as everyone's a critic and will dissect subjective videos all night long.

 

Been down Camp Verde Grades many times. I used to spend a lot of time hanging out in Flagstaff. The grades are not terribly steep(6% in a few spots but they taper off) but if you spend a lot of time on the brakes going down you will heat them up pretty good on a hot day. Many times I started out in icy conditions graduating to much warmer temps into the Phoenix area. These days I just grab a gear and glide down with the Jacobs Brake. Grabbing the right gear and using the Jake I seldom touch the brakes. Back in the day most of the trucks I drove didn't have an engine brake. The trick then was to go down much slower; usually below 25 and you didn't go fast enough to have any worries. I've also had to learn the hard way when I was young what happens on say a 7% 6 mile grade when you don't know what you're doing.

Brakes start to heat up and then they don't work so good. So you react by hitting them harder causing them to heat up further and eventually they start to smoke. When it gets that far, hold on for dear life because you are going for a ride to hell. In 37 years I have never been up a runaway ramp. Lucky me. I have learned to slow down through the years.

 

Ahhh the smell of hot brakes in the Summer. It's an experience you never really enjoy.

 

There is a limit to stab. Keep an eye on your primary and secondary air. Once they drop to 80 quit stabbing. Make the last application worth one or two gears down and get that jake on the job to build you back up and also allow thermal cooling in the air flow off your drums and pads.

You can switch to constant pressure braking but the application gauge comes into play along with your speedometer. You need to put on enough to hold it but you cannot put on too much and build up thermal power until you smoke then fade out to fire. The application power needs to be less than what your air compressur is generating to build air back up.

It's a precision balance. But at the end of day if you are geared low enough and slow enough you can get down any grade. But I would not want to put my life on 24% that I talk about now and then without a jake. Ive driven trucks without them and it was a problem in my younger wild days. But you learn. The reason for the jake is the ultimate. All the way down with cold brakes ready for battle to make that stop one time for you if you ever have to downhill no matter how steep it is. That truck will give you one stop.

Check your drums on your pretrip or mountain check point make sure they have not started to glaze or cracks on the surface that meets the pad. That's really important. Also bring ball peen hammer tap edge of drum. It should with brakes parking on go thud. If you get a ding... get your brake adjusted on that wheel.

I know many of you know this stuff. But it bears repeating. Basic stuff for mountain work, Ive staked my life on mountains anywhere in the USA and frankly I love it. (And I was afraid of them in driving school....) a little bit of a monster from my instructors he he.

I was beginning to think that driveshaft can be a alternate source of braking. Need a fluid jacket put on with a clutch to generate retarding power. Wonder how big or small it will have to be to withstand say... Cabbage.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with using a jake on +20% off road grades. Jakes will lock up the drivers on that kind of environment. Brakes & throttle application is the key to a safe decent.