This may be redundant but I would like to know

Discussion in 'Expediter and Hot Shot Trucking Forum' started by Ryan S2016, Oct 22, 2016.

  1. Ryan S2016

    Ryan S2016 Medium Load Member

    450
    301
    Feb 11, 2016
    Western North Carolina
    0
    If I was to opt out of buying a 3500 and went with a 2500 Ram but still had the 2 car trailer, could I more or less stay under the CDL requirements. The trailer is GVWR is 14K its weight is approx 5K the 2500 is around 8K or more. If I was to put two cars on there what could be the max weight of those cars and would it be still considered under the CDL requirements of 26,001. Or is it because the two cars would equal over 10,001 lbs do I still need the CDL. I apologize for all this weight stuff but I am trying to find what is the best option for my money and try to cut expenses wherever is possible.
     
  2. Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.

  3. Ke6gwf

    Ke6gwf Medium Load Member

    412
    406
    Oct 1, 2016
    Napa Valley /Yreka CA
    0
    I don't know about Federal or elsewhere, but pretty sure in California you have to have a CDL if your trailer gvwr is over 10k.

    I got pulled over in a company F350 with a single car trailer one time for speeding, and the cop expressed surprise when he got my license, because he thought he was going to get an out-of-class ticket too just based on looking at the trailer.

    It was the first time I had driven that truck, and I had not yet done a speedo check on it. (This was before smart phones and GPS lol), and so I asked him to pace me and flash his lights when we got to 55, and he didn't write me for speeding. ;)
    (it was way off...)
     
    TequilaSunrise Thanks this.
  4. brian991219

    brian991219 Road Train Member

    2,925
    5,819
    Aug 10, 2013
    Lords Valley, PA
    0
    Ryan,
    Glad to see you are still giving it a go and asking questions. Simple answer, CDL requirements are based on the manufacturer declared gross vehicle weight rating. So even with the trailer over 10,001 pounds as long as the gross weight rating of the truck and trailer together do not add up to more than 26,001 pounds you will not need a CDL. As soon as those two ratings or the actual scale weight when inspected exceed 26,001 pounds you jump from no CDL needed right into a class A. These are the actual ratings as on the door plate and tongue plate of the vehicles, and don't confuse the trucks gross combination weight rating, that is simply the maximum combination weight it can tow but you only need to be licensed for the actual combination weight as presented at the side of the road when being inspected by DOT.

    These are Federal rules, all the states have to abide by them, that was settled many years ago when New York had the class D non-cdl that was good only up to 18,000 pounds and they were ticketing people for driving rental trucks and such.
     
    Ryan S2016 Thanks this.
  5. Mikesee

    Mikesee Light Load Member

    90
    51
    Oct 25, 2014
    0
    The actual weight of the vehicle and trailer does not matter for CDL, it is the Combined of the truck and trailer GVWR that counts. Add the Trailer GVWR to the Truck GVWR that determines CDL requirements. So your tow vehicle has to have a GVWR of 12,000 or less with a 14k GVWR trailer if you want to avoid CDL. After that you need to calculate your axle weight which will vary depending on how you load your trailer. For example if you put the heavy car closer to the truck more weight from the trailer will end up on the truck. You will need to go to a CAT scale to figure this stuff out.
     
  6. Ke6gwf

    Ke6gwf Medium Load Member

    412
    406
    Oct 1, 2016
    Napa Valley /Yreka CA
    0
    States have to abide by Federal rules, but they can be more strict.

    And California is! (on a lot of things...)

    If in California you tow a commercial trailer over 10,001 pounds gvwr, you have to have Class A license, except for some specifics like a farmer hauling his own livestock.
    I wouldn't be surprised if other states have similar laws, but I know CA does.

    https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/cdl_htm/lic_chart
     
  7. Ke6gwf

    Ke6gwf Medium Load Member

    412
    406
    Oct 1, 2016
    Napa Valley /Yreka CA
    0
    It looks like Massachusetts requires Class A for trailers over 10k, just like CA, and that North Carolina doesn’t go by gvwr, but by actual weight (don't remember what the cut offs were), and some other states use the FMCSA layout.

    On the FMCSA site where they give the Federal rules, they have this disclaimer at the bottom :

    "States may have a more restrictive category for a class of license, or have additional codes for endorsements or restrictions on CDLs that are not mentioned in the Federal regulations, as long as these items are fully explained on the license document."

    Basically the CDL system is to ensure a consistent level of training across all the states, and prevent people from holding several driver's licenses to run multiple sets of books, but the actual class break is variable.
     
  8. Ryan S2016

    Ryan S2016 Medium Load Member

    450
    301
    Feb 11, 2016
    Western North Carolina
    0
    Hello Brian long time no talk. I actually have gotten more advice in this forum then that of the auto hauler one. Guess the questions to the "big boys" were a bit annoying. Anyway yes I am still trucking along and am pleased that I was able to run my 1/2 ton pickup with a 1 car hauler enough to afford an upgrade.
    I have my heart set on a 3500 1 ton however the prices are high. Buying used isn't out of the question but buying used with 60 or 70 K miles on it is. Partly because I don't know what or how the previous owner treated it or used it for. There could be underlying issues that can spring up at any time. Now I have been looking at the 2500 models and according to what I have read they have a tow capacity of around 17,900. The GVWR on the door plate says 10,000 the trailer says 14,000 so I am at 24K right there. If I put two cars on it I will be over 26001 and I would get burned by the DOT correct? Or am I still not understanding the difference here. Getting my CDL is not an issue other than loss days on the road making money. But if I can avoid it for now I would prefer to.
     
  9. brian991219

    brian991219 Road Train Member

    2,925
    5,819
    Aug 10, 2013
    Lords Valley, PA
    0
    What you are missing is you do not add the weight of the cars to the gross weight rating, the gross weight rating is the total of what the truck, trailer, and cargo can weigh not what they actually weigh empty. So your truck has a gross of 10k but really only weight about 8k and the trailer has a gross of 14k but really only weights about 7k leaving you about 9,000 pounds of cars or other cargo to carry. So the only time you will have to worry about needing a class A is if you are overweight for the combination and if you are you will have other problems anyhow. To be sure you will have enough cargo capacity get the actual empty weight of the truck and trailer and subtract that from gross weight ratings and that will be your carrying capacity.
     
    Ryan S2016 Thanks this.
  10. Ke6gwf

    Ke6gwf Medium Load Member

    412
    406
    Oct 1, 2016
    Napa Valley /Yreka CA
    0
    As Brian said, you have 2 numbers.

    The GVWR - Gross Vehicle Weight RATING, which is the maximum total weight the vehicle is allowed to put on the ground (what the scale would say).

    Then you have the Tare or Unladen weight, which is the empty weight of the vehicle or trailer.

    The difference between these numbers is your Net or Cargo weight capacity.

    So if your truck weighs 8k (the Unladen or Tare weight), and the GVWR is 10k, that means you have 2k of Net or Cargo capacity. You can haul 1 ton without overloading it legally.
    Now, that 1 ton can be firewood in the bed of the truck, or tongue weight of a gooseneck trailer, as long as the 2 axles of the truck (the GVW) don't exceed the GVWR (the Rating for max GVW) of 10k or whatever it is.

    You also have to see what the actual axle and tire weight ratings are.
    My F350 has a GVWR of 9900, a front axle GVWR of 5200, a rear axle GVWR of 6830, and the tires are rated for 3,415 pounds each.
    So my tires exactly match my rear axle rating (and I often see tires, especially on trailers, that are too light duty to allow a fully loaded vehicle rating, and they do check this, so so should you! Lol)

    So you have to find out what your gross and axle ratings are (the sticker on the door post, or on the trailer), then weigh the truck and trailer empty (though make sure you have full fuel tanks, and all the tools and luggage you would normally carry with you.) this gives you your Unladen weight.
    Now you subtract that from your GVWR, actually from your GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating, the combination of your truck and trailer's GVWR'S. So say it is 24,000k, that is the GCWR), and you have the maximum cargo weight you can carry.

    Once you get to load, you still have to figure out how to load it to not exceed the axle or vehicle weight ratings, so in the example, not more than 2k on the truck, and the hitch has to be positioned correctly to distribute that weight properly between the axles.

    This all sounds complicated, but once you get a load on it, drive on a scale, and check how much is on each axle, and then look to see how you have the cars positioned. You will get the hang of where to put them to match your rig, it is just figuring out a new set up that takes a bit of work, but it is just playing with the numbers until they match.

    As far as cdl and legality, some states only look at the GCWR (truck and trailer combined max Rating), some base it on the Trailer Max weight rating (the GVWR) (California and Massachusetts at least, probably others), and some base it on the actual scale weight. (North Carolina?)

    So since your trailer is over 10k GVWR, you will need a Class A in at least some states.
    If you don't want to get it yet, decide what states you want to run in, and check their license class rules, and just stick in the states that allow you to be Class C as long as you stay below 26k combined GVWR.
     
    Ryan S2016 and brian991219 Thank this.
  11. Ryan S2016

    Ryan S2016 Medium Load Member

    450
    301
    Feb 11, 2016
    Western North Carolina
    0
    Is there somewhere on the internet or other publication that would show the individual states weight regulations or do I have to Google every state I plan to travel in and try to locate their weight restriction policies ? And thank you for your breakdown of this. I do actually want my CDL it's just right now I need a new truck and trailer ASAP and with NC law of having to wait 14 days before I can take the road test it's gonna put a big damper on my cash flow
     
  • Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.