Trailer swing while backing and position of tandems?

Discussion in 'Experienced Truckers' Advice' started by expedite_it, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. expedite_it

    expedite_it Road Train Member

    1,646
    863
    Sep 8, 2012
    0
    When I attended CR England's trucking school in 2012, the paperwork that CR England gave me listed the advantages and disadvantages of having the tandems slid all the way forward, and the paperwork listed the advantages and disadvantages of having the tandems slid all the way back.

    As I recall, the paperwork said that if the tandems are all the way to the rear when you are backing, you have to turn the steering wheel farther to get the trailer to react than if the tandems are all the way forward. Is that correct?

    Anyway, I understand how the position of the tandems would affect how far you have to turn the steering wheel when you are backing. However, if I recall correctly, paperwork CR England gave me said that if the tandems are all the way forward when one is driving forward and turning the steering wheel (e.g. pulling forward out of a parking spot at a trucking stop), the rear of the trailer would move to the opposite direction that one is turning. For instance, the paperwork said that if a semi-truck driving forward out of a parking spot and the steering wheel is turned to the left (so the tractor moves to the left), then the rear of the trailer would go to the right. But the paperwork said that if a semi-truck has the tandems all the way to the rear, and the semi-truck drives forward out of a parking spot and the steering wheel is turned to the left, then the rear of the trailer won't move to the right with the tandems slid all the way to the rear. I agree with CR England that if a semi-truck drives forward out of a parking spot and the steering wheel is turned to the left, then the rear of the trailer won't turn to the right if the tandems are slid all the way back. But I don't think that the rear of the trailer would turn to the right if the semi-truck pulled forward and the steering wheel was turned to the left with the tandems all the way forward.

    If the tandems are slid all the way forward on a semi-trucking driving forward out of a parking spot, and the steering wheel is turned to the left, will the rear of the trailer move to the right?

    If the rear of the trailer did move to the right, what would cause the rear of the trailer to move to the right? The tandems don't pivot like the tractor-trailer pivots at the kingpin.
     
  2. Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.

  3. Kyle G.

    Kyle G. Road Train Member

    3,765
    19,668
    Jan 23, 2016
    Eastern Iowa
    0
    I never thought I’d say this, but CR England is correct.
     
  4. tscottme

    tscottme Road Train Member

    Think of the trailer as a see-saw or teeter. However instead of the see-saw ends moving up and down, the trailer ends move left and right. The ends of the trailer pivot around the trailer tandems. If you push one end of the balanced see-saw down, the other end of it goes up. If the nose of the trailer goes left, the portion of the trailer behind the trailer tandems swings to the right. The position of the tandems (forward/back) and the amount you steer the trailer nose left/right determines how much the trailer end or trailer tail swings to the opposite side.

    Balance a pen, pencil, drinking straw on your finger. What happens when you grab one end of that pencil and push it down. The opposite end moves in the opposite direction. In the truck, as you set the trailer tandems forward the tail of the trailer swings wider. The farther forward the tandems are set the more larger the tail swing you create. The reason why the trailer tail ALMOST doesn't move to the right when the tandems are set all the way back is because there is there is ALMOST no trailer behind the tandems. There are pleny of YouTube videos you can watch to see this happen.

    Set your trailer tandems as needed for legal weight distribution and don't move them just to make backing easier. Learn to back the trailer no matter where the tandems are set. If you learn to back your life in trucking is much easier. If you look for every shortcut instead of learning to back your last day in trucking will be just as hard as your first day.
     
  5. tscottme

    tscottme Road Train Member

    It was an accident, pun intended, it won't happen again.
     
  6. tscottme

    tscottme Road Train Member

    Here's a video to help you see the effect of tandem placement on tail swing.
     
  7. expedite_it

    expedite_it Road Train Member

    1,646
    863
    Sep 8, 2012
    0
    I totally understand that if I balance a pen on my finger, and if I push the pin down, the other end of the pin will go up. If I balance a pen on my finger, my finger is a pivot point. But when I am pulling a semi-truck forward out of a parking spot and turning the steering wheel to the left, the pivot point is the kingpin of the trailer, not the tandems. I don't understand why the position of the tandems would make a difference.

    Please give me a link to one of the youtube videos that show trailer swing when driving forward.
     
  8. expedite_it

    expedite_it Road Train Member

    1,646
    863
    Sep 8, 2012
    0
    I watched the video. I believe you that there is a greater trailer swing when the tandems are all the way forward than all the way back. But I still don't fully understand this. Since the tandems are not a pivot point, I don't understand why there is more trailer swing with the tandems all the way forward.
     
    tscottme Thanks this.
  9. tscottme

    tscottme Road Train Member

    The tandems ARE the pivot point of the trailer, actually the mid-point of the tandems. The kingpin is the pivot point of the tractor and the lead-point of the trailer.

    Think of a folding pocket knife. If the blade is 1 inch past the pivot, the "swing" is only a 1 inch radius.
    If that pocket knife has a 6 inch blade, the swing of that blade is 6 inches in radius. When you slide trailer tandems all the way to the rear, imagine you are reducing the length of the knife blade to some small distance. When you slide the tandems all the way forward your "pocket knife" now has a "blade of several feet.
     
  10. Kyle G.

    Kyle G. Road Train Member

    3,765
    19,668
    Jan 23, 2016
    Eastern Iowa
    0
    Take the tractor out of the equation. The only other part touching the ground is your tandems. That makes it a pivot point.

    Pivot point
    Point that an object rotates around. Sometimes called the fulcrum or rotational axis.
     
  11. MidWest_MacDaddy

    MidWest_MacDaddy Road Train Member

    11,085
    18,520
    Feb 21, 2015
    South Carolina
    0
    It very much IS a pivot point.

    Except that the two parts don’t move independently like the truck does under the trailer at the kingpin.

    Take any straight item like say a 12” ruler. Pin down a point say at 9” and move the long end to the left. The short end then MUST move to the right.

    The trailer will PIVOT at the tandems. The more of the trailer that is behind the pivot point of the wheels will move in the opposite direction of the other end.
     
  • Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.