Transmission losses on dyno

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by V8Lenny, Feb 15, 2010.

  1. V8Lenny

    V8Lenny Road Train Member

    1,016
    130
    Aug 3, 2008
    Europe
    0
    A C-16 with 18-speed and double drive makes 583 hp to the ground, estimated transmission losses are 65 hp, engine hp is then 648, that makes 10% transmission losses.

    Let's say we change marine injectors and cam, a bigger turbo and maybe some other mods and it now makes 900 hp to the ground. Are the transmission losses still 65 hp or are they 10%=100 hp? Is it now 965 or 1000 engine hp?
     
    Art387 Thanks this.
  2. Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.

  3. Heavyd

    Heavyd Road Train Member

    7,811
    6,264
    Feb 4, 2009
    0
    If you aren't changing the rolling resistance of the transmission, then your loses would stay the same at 65hp.
     
  4. Mr. Haney

    Mr. Haney Road Train Member

    2,693
    2,041
    Dec 17, 2008
    0
    Everywhere I've ever seen a dyno run done it's by percentage. Most shops and CAT use 15% driveline loss with the engine fan on. The newer trucks with there high flow fans are 20% power loss. The fans can decrease power from 25-50 hp depending on blade pitch, diameter, and the number of blades
     
  5. V8Lenny

    V8Lenny Road Train Member

    1,016
    130
    Aug 3, 2008
    Europe
    0
    It's not accurate, that's why I started this thread. Here they do a coastdown test with a MaHa dyno, it's closer to truth but not 100% accurate because the transmission is spinning "backwards" and there's no load.

    Losses explained here

    http://www.rri.se/index.php?DN=30

    Download the PDF from the bottom of the page, "Why powertrain performance measurements"
     
  6. V8Lenny

    V8Lenny Road Train Member

    1,016
    130
    Aug 3, 2008
    Europe
    0
    If you are trying to calculate which turbo to choose for 900 whp, you must know how many hp you need at flywheel. If you use 65 hp transmission losses you need turbo for 965 hp, but if you use 20% loss you need a turbo for 1125 hp. That's propably 1 step up in turbo size, it will be a dyno queen, makes same power at high rpm but in very narrow range and will be laggy and low in power at lower rpm. That's what this were all about.

    If you want to know fan losses, dyno it with fan On and Off. It's not a procentual loss either, why would same fan take more power with higher horsepower engine if the rpm is the same? Cummins says ISX fan takes max 70hp at max rpm, only 10hp at 1100 rpm.
     
    Art387 Thanks this.
  7. JohnP3

    JohnP3 Road Train Member

    1,594
    684
    Feb 21, 2010
    Rock Creek B.C. Canada
    0
    I ran a dyno and we always figured drive line loss at 18% you get 82% of engine HP to the ground that is in direct in the transmission. That is a steady pull and if you drop the load down 50 HP it will pick it back up. That is not the BS way of putting it in OD and top RPM then dumping a huge load on it and when the graph hump goes to the max giving that as the HP. when it is on the dyno and you get a base with the fan in you can cut it out and see what it gives without the fan, remember a dyno is very hard on everything. You do not get adequate cooling,
     
  8. Jas

    Jas Medium Load Member

    I've always used 50hp loss for the drive train and 25 for the fan when dynoing a stockish pre Acert engine, once the engine is no longer stock and you are not chasing factory type low power complaints the engine horsepower is irrelevent anyway, all that matters is how much power it puts to the ground as thats whats available for pulling the load.
    You can get huge diffenences from one dyno to another, altitude can make a diffenence and wheel slip plus many other factors. There are whole websites on how to set up a car to perform its best at a dyno comp, even alot of ways to cheat and fool a dyno, same applies to trucks just on a bigger scale.
    Target horsepower shouldn't realy be the deciding factor in turbo choice, it should be more based around the engines desired air flow capability, engine capacity and intended use.
     
  9. V8Lenny

    V8Lenny Road Train Member

    1,016
    130
    Aug 3, 2008
    Europe
    0
    You must know the target horsepower to know how much airflow you need to reach it. Engine capacity has no meaning, 1000 hp needs same airflow no matter if it is 10 L or 16 L, 10 L just needs more pressure to get all that air in, or higher rpm. This is true only if the engine efficiencies are the same.
     
  10. Jas

    Jas Medium Load Member

    I just meant there are other factors other than desired HP, but engine capacity does have an effect on turbo choice, a 16 liter engine can take a larger turbo than a 10 liter because it has more capacity to spin it up, the big turbo may still work on the 10 liter but it may be way to slow spooling up to be of any use in all but dyno comps.
     
  11. V8Lenny

    V8Lenny Road Train Member

    1,016
    130
    Aug 3, 2008
    Europe
    0
    Thet's why I said more rpm, it spools fast if you have enough rpm. 16 L can also make more power with even bigger turbo, 1000 hp 10L, 1600 hp 16L...
     
  • Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.