Unsecured load on sealed trailer

So if you slam on your brakes, that will release you from liability? It's easy to tell load damage from bad driving or forklift damage. A picture tells all.
Shippers don't want their freight damaged just as much as you do. I never seen a preloaded trailer loaded improperly. These preloaded trailers are coming from places that load the same freight day in and day out.

If it scales out, you're good to go. If not, you return for corrections.

The paperwork has the seal documented on it and unless it says driver count on it, you are not liable for the count. Like blackW900 said, there is a behind the scenes contract between the company and shipper. What you write on the bills does not alter the contract. The importatnt part is try to get the customer to write "seal intact" on the bills.

The DOT man won't open your trailer unless it's a border crossing or you or the bills look suspiscious. Such as a hand written bill. Other than that, it is a rare occurance.

There's a level of trust. These people trust you to do your job and you really don't need to distrust them. The outcome can be proven without writing on the bills. Besides, it looks unprofessional.

 

I have had several shippers that said that they will not allow me to put SLC on the bills. I did it anyway.
I know for a fact that all contracts that my company signs are SLC contracts. They will not accept the liability to do it any other way.
They are a larger company though, and they are 100% self insured. So if the seal is broken and the load refused, the company pays 100% of the claim.

Loads that are very subject to shifting, like paper rolls and coils are normally not sealed when I pick them up.
The paper ones allot of the time will say to stop and check them every couple of hours on the bills themselves.
So I will get up in those trailers and really inspect the blocking and stuff.
I treat all loads like they may shift though. I drove dumps, tanks, and mixers for years. Those are all very top heavy trucks, and you cannot take turns fast or stop fast with them.
If I treat every load like it is a non-secured high and heavy load it helps allot.

 

First off addressing the leaking HAZMAT that is sealed, absolutlely not under any circumstance would you break that seal, Park it in a area where the public is safe, drop the trailer, park up wind and call Fire/Hazmat and the numbers listed on the BOL, never should a driver break that seal, You do not know what is leaking or what is going to happen when you open the trailer doors, leave it to the professionals. They train for this.

If I have reason to believe a load is not loaded properly or secured properly just call your dispatch and tell them you want access to inspect the load as soon as they refuse, you are no longer liable.

 

No, I am saying that §392.9(b)(4) excuses a driver from regulatory compliance with §392.9 under certain conditions and that "I" know of no regs concerning haz-mat loads which would negate what is stated in §392.9(b)(4).

Concerning liability though, a defect in load/loading which is apparent or should be apparent to the carrier's rep (Usually the driver) can tilt the liability scale towrd the carrier. It becomes reasonably obvious that in terms of "liability" when a shipper seals and orders a carrier not to inspect the load it is in the carriers best interest to comply with the shippers order, as to do so could, and likely will introduce some liability to the carrier (And driver) should a mishap occur.

Is your concern about compliance with regulations or civil liability?

If the load is unsecured and a driver is driving the vehicle, then yes. The three major issues would then be "safety", "regulatory compliance", and "civil liability", wouldn't they? The three are not necessarily mutually inclusive or exclusive.

Best regards

 

Well stated!

Best regards

 

Okay, regarding paper rolls.

First, how would anyone here suggest paper rolls be hauled out of the very wet Northwest if they shouldn't be in vans? Remember what happens to paper when it gets wet?

Second, the anti-slip rubber matting under the rolls is enough to prevent load shift. Most paper shippers do not want load bars on their freight because they crush the paper fibers for the first about 15 layers. That's a lot of paper (money) to waste. Some receivers will refuse a load of paper that has had load bars or straps applied for this very reason. Yes, I have personally witnessed this. And when DOT asks how it's secured, tell them it's on anti-slip matting. It's all that's required.

Third, paper rolls do not shift unless the driver is going too fast on hills and corners, jackrabbiting the throttle or hard braking. If a trailer full of paper turns over on a corner or ramp it's because the driver was going too fast. When I have them on, I see a 25mph git-on ramp and go around the corner at no faster than 20mph. People behind me can get as irritated as they want to. 'Cause I'll guarantee you they'll be a whole lot more irritated if I go the speed they want me to and lose the trailer...along with 8 or 9 rolls of paper going every whichaway.

With any of these loads, it's about understanding the physics of the freight. If you have something round, tall and skinny, liquid or top heavy on, slow the heck down and back off the nitwit in front of you! I'd rather get there a little late than never get there at all.

 

I'm not picking on you Injun so please understand that.....

First off, they haul paper rolls on flatbeds every day. It may only be certain types of paper but they do do it.

Second, the rubber mats will only prevent the rolls from moving if they are loaded correctly. When I used to haul paper rolls they staggered them so they couldn't slid any way at all. The rubber mats were just there to make drivers feel comfortable.

If they are loading them down the center of the trailer, you better have something to prevent them from sliding side to side. The rolls won't slide on the rubber mats but the mats will slide on the floor. When I used to pull railvans they kept having this problem so they eventually started nailing 2x4's around the last roll to prevent it from moving.

Third, basically crap happens! In the event of a rollover (hope it never happens), whats to stop them rolls from leaving the deck of that trailer? Nothing! Now I don't know how DOT will look at this but wouldn't that be a insecure load?

Now in steel hauling, anything that leaves the trailer is a big no no! So is it different with a van? Does the law say that since its a van its ok but if I roll over and lose a coil I'm in deep ######?

This to me is the problem with the DOT and some of the rules. How is it safe for a van to haul a skidded coil with nothing over the top but if I do it, its unsafe?

 

Les, I completely understand the frustration with the dichotomy. I'm sure there are certain types of paper that can and often must be skateboarded. No argument there. I was rebutting the idea that vans should never be used for them.

Also, there are certain types of metal that should not be flatbedded. I can't count the number of times I've hauled copper coils. Not because flatbeds can't do it, but because of the high incidence of theft. For some reason or other, the customer feels more comfortable nailing 2x4s to the floor and shipping them in a van.

DOT can ####### all they want. They're the ones who came up with all this.

And I certainly hope no driver feels "more comfortable" just because there are pads under those rolls. IMO, that would be the driver most apt to have a misadventure with them.

I had it explained to me once that when hauling steel or other heavy metal coild via skateboard, you are not tying the coils to the trailer so much as tying the trailer to the coil. An interesting way to look at it.

 

Interesting what you saying about the copper coils. In reality, vans are just cheaper transportation. I've seen them hauled on open flats with no tarps many times. I even seen a load of scrap sheets that could've been easily stolen hauled without tarps.

I don't know for sure but if your hauling coils that should be in racks and they are not and they aren't secured the same way ours have to be, I'd bet you'd get in some big trouble over that with the DOT.

 

They are on racks, but there is no way to secure them with chains like on a flatbed. So they just nail 2x4s to the floor and run it. Probably not the most ideal situation, but if linehaul cost was the only factor, Swift, Werner and Prime all have flats. They could just as easily order flats form these companies for roughly the same as a van.