Very bad fuel economy on KW T600 ISX15

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by victor, Jul 25, 2010.

  1. victor

    victor Bobtail Member

    46
    9
    Jul 21, 2010
    Steinbach, MB
    0
    Guys,
    please help me to overcome my fuel economy problems with my truck! I bought a KW T600B with Cummins ISX15 engine (art of crap) 475HP, w/o roof top wind deflector, 3.9 gear ratio, 2004 year.

    Initially when I bought it had 4 MPG, hauling semi light loads with dry 53' van. After putting in there around $13K I got average of 5.3 MPG.

    I replaced the coolant and air coolers, turbo and injectors. Also shut off the EGR because it farts all the time and a lot of black smoke comes out.

    I have a few bad symptoms left and probably there is something is the motor system that is causing that, eventually giving me bad mileage and poor experience with the ISX.

    My turbo very often goes up to 48 psi, though I know it should not go over 38 psi. No smoke out of exhaust pipe at all.

    Have done full service, changed intake air filter.

    Fan goes on very often, my oil temp shows 250F mostly, though coolant is between 180-210F. I think I do have faulty oil temp sensor.

    When turbo goes over 38 psi up to 48 psi I feel the engine is derated because I see loss of power.

    That is mostly all I can state for the beginning of the discussion. Guys, please help me define the problem. I want to fix the problems potentially bringing my fuel economy to 7-7.5 MPG. Kenworth dealer guys have so many opinions that I can't trust these ###-perts. They just take my money, not the problem.
     
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  3. phroziac

    phroziac Road Train Member

    3,138
    502
    Jun 16, 2009
    Gary, IN
    0
    Oil temp at 250 doesnt sound like a big deal to me. Your turbo gets very hot, and guess where the oil for it comes from? I doubt its a faulty sensor. It's not going to be the same temp as antifreeze. I have a motorcycle where the oil can get up to 400 degrees, and thats considered normal and OK. It's not hurting the oil. :)

    I have no comment for the rest of your issues.
     
  4. victor

    victor Bobtail Member

    46
    9
    Jul 21, 2010
    Steinbach, MB
    0
    The oil does not smell burnt, turbo is my big frustration. Why the ECU lets it go that high? No technician gave me a definite answer yet. :(
     
  5. lego1970

    lego1970 Medium Load Member

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    Oct 10, 2008
    Blue Springs, Missouri
    0
    My oil runs about 200 on a 2003 Cat C-15 although I've seen it creep up to 225 chugging up a hill. Sensor location might be a factor and maybe the sensor is located in a different area on a Cummins? Don't know. One thing you could do is get a point and shoot temp gun and check the temps off of each exhaust port on the header to see if one cylinder is running hotter or cooler then the others. While it wouldn't be practical, it would be good if you could check your turbo temps compared to somebody else's with the same motor, load, hill, etc, etc to see if yours is running hot. Has anybody tried to hot rod the motor up? I see some guys on here that really seem to know what they are doing and have the money to do it right, but I also read a lot of guys who just start mismatching parts hoping to get a 800hp engine and not looking into fuel mileage, longevity, etc, etc. Could your engine be one of those? Also I wouldn't expect to see 7's if your running faster then 65-70mph with 3.90 rears, even on flat land, low elevation, and a light box. With my old Detroit 12.7 with 3.70 rears, running flat land, low elevation, and a light box, I would seldom see more then 6.5 if I ran over 65mph. Having said all that, unless your constantly chugging up hills, I think you should at least be getting into the 5's, but then again, I don't know where your hauling, what your hauling, or how those ISX engines do. Good luck.
     
  6. victor

    victor Bobtail Member

    46
    9
    Jul 21, 2010
    Steinbach, MB
    0
    thanks for your answer. I go mostly through ND, SD, MN, WI, IL, IN, OH, Canada - MB, SK, AB, BC and ON. Hills are everywhere, and a lots of crosswinds with head winds. My speed is never over 62 mph, mostly 60 mph, when passing - 65 mph, since it is my top governed speed.

    Also, I noticed if I do 50 mph, having about 1300 rpm, that is my best fuel economy getting on average 6.5-7 mpg, but that is a dry land turtle speed! My gross weight averages between 50,000 - 78,000 lbs.

    What I think is that my gear ratio plays significant role in mpg, and I guess if I have around 3.36 I would do at my worst 6.5-7 mpg, but... climbing every hill I would have to downshift to 8-lower. That is not the best option.

    As to the turbo speed, I need to find an answer why it goes up to 48 psi, and I agree with you that it is running over its designed working temp. and speed. The old turbo had the same problem. So, I conclude that is not turbo problem. Something else is causing the turbo overboost and thus ECM derates the engine.

    The engine mileage is 818K km (510K miles). It idles smooth at my lowest setup 750 rpm. I do not idle the engine except for warmups and cooldowns.

    My other guess is that the cylinders do not have good enough compression as they should and that might waste extra fuel.
     
  7. beltrans

    beltrans Medium Load Member

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    Nov 26, 2008
    spokane wa
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    victor Thanks this.
  8. Kiviknon

    Kiviknon Light Load Member

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    Jul 8, 2010
    Fayetteville, NC
    0
    Does your engine ever sound funny when it spikes to 48psi? I'm not sure if a cummins has a wastegate on the turbo or not.
     
  9. victor

    victor Bobtail Member

    46
    9
    Jul 21, 2010
    Steinbach, MB
    0
    when turbo overboosts, the boost jumps rapidly from 38 to 48 psi and engine pitch goes low freq., seems like it is lugging.
     
  10. Kiviknon

    Kiviknon Light Load Member

    162
    65
    Jul 8, 2010
    Fayetteville, NC
    0
    Fuel cut, your wastegate is bad.

    But after the spike the pressure drops after the lugging?
     
  11. T800H

    T800H Medium Load Member

    608
    295
    Apr 2, 2010
    The Keys
    0
    I think the ISX has a VGT (Variable Geometry Turbo) and I'm not sure but a puff of pressure once in a while my be what that turbo is made for, in any case the VGT is a better design than waste gate, and a lot more expensive.
     
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