Wabco On Guard CMS Breaking for Signs and Bridges

Discussion in 'Heavy Duty Diesel Truck Mechanics Forum' started by Bugsy1108, Sep 29, 2022.

  1. Bugsy1108

    Bugsy1108 Light Load Member

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    Mar 20, 2019
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    2018 International LT
    X15 Cummins
    Eaton 10 Speed Auto

    This truck has Wabco On Guard as an integrated system. Everything about it shows up on the main display, non the little add on screens you see in older trucks.

    The unit sees bridges, signs, k rails, etc and stand the brakes. Very random. Sometimes goes days without incident, then bam.

    Got worse after hitting a deer, so the sensor was replaced. A cool 5 grand from international.

    Worked great for two weeks, then once every couple days. After four weeks it's back to happening 6 to 12 times a day.

    12 shops had said they see nothing wrong before the replacement. One said the software wouldn't update.
    Now I'm back to shops saying nothing is wrong.

    Here's the weird crap...
    When they run the calibration and update they have you drive the truck. So the left this laptop as I drove it, didn't have a tech available, and when it's done it says something like "Failed. Communication error."
    I didn't get exactly what it said since it's not my computer and it was just there for a sec.
    But when I ask them they insist it's normal and always displays that message.

    It sounds fishy to me, but I don't have a few grand laying around to do on software and manuals.

    Anybody! Help!

    Thanks guys.
     
    MWTechGuy Thanks this.
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  3. MWTechGuy

    MWTechGuy Bobtail Member

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    Nov 8, 2022
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    Its pretty common to set a fault when the alignment completes with a Cummins engine. Like when you update a PC, the radar needs to reboot after the alignment. When it does that, the engine doesn't like that and the radar sets a fault. So the big question is after it said error did you pull over and cycle the key, and after that were there any faults? If not, then it likely went through correctly. Adding on, any of the radars today including Pass-Car do have some "False Positives" that react to bridges and stuff. The big things to pay attention to is that the radar/mounting isn't offset and there are no obstructions. WABCO put out a driver video talking about "unintended braking" (OnGuardACTIVE Driver Training - YouTube)
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2022
    Reason for edit: Added link
  4. GYPSY65

    GYPSY65 Road Train Member

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    SW FLA
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    I had two Pete’s with that crash mitigation stuff
    They would at random slam on the brakes and they were in the shop dozens of times until finally one of them said to remove the bumper cover that Peterbilt uses
    After that it stopped doing the brake check

    I had heard of guys wrapping the radar in tin foil
    I asked Pete about that and for obvious reasons he said he couldn’t say if it would work probably a lawsuit thing if he agreed and something happened but in my case the cover removal did the trick

    I no longer have those and will never again if I can help it
     
  5. PaulMinternational

    PaulMinternational Light Load Member

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    Great news now we need to worry about the computer braking for no reason as well as the bad drivers!
     
    GYPSY65 Thanks this.
  6. Bugsy1108

    Bugsy1108 Light Load Member

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    Mar 20, 2019
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    I've seen the video, but really...
    Every truck I've driven with this system has had this happen on rare occasions. This one is just of the chain.

    I've had people suggest it could be a wiring issue or that there may be an internal unit malfunction. Throwing money at problems gets old.
     
    MWTechGuy Thanks this.
  7. Short Fuse EOD

    Short Fuse EOD Road Train Member

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    Let your representative know. They are pushing these thru the government. If you don’t complain, they will believe the oem that report that they are great for safety and drivers love em.
     
    MWTechGuy and armo Thank this.
  8. Metalicious

    Metalicious Medium Load Member

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    I don't understand how or why anyone would think that crash mitigation is a good idea. What the hell are you supposed to do when it slams the brakes on in rain, or on icy roads? Seems like that's something stupid, taking control from the driver like that. I get the idea of it, but I too have had the experience in trucks I drove that had that trash on it that would hit the brakes coming up to an overpass, coming down a hill, etc.
     
  9. MWTechGuy

    MWTechGuy Bobtail Member

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    I get that. If it's not throwing faults, then I would think the wiring/internals are good. The radars are usually the first thing complaining about that. I don't think your radar was programmed special/different from all the other similar trucks so that would mean something specific to yours if acting different (IE possibly hitting the deer, maybe this route was different than the last time you drove with a radar). If the one vehicle is "acting up" more than others, then it sounds like either: A) The new radar isn't updated (WABCO put out an update to reduce the false positives) B) Hitting the deer changed the bracket/frame and the radar is physically not pointing where it should. I've seen some guys have to bend the frame back into shape, replace the little metal bracket holding the radar, or the less reputable guys shim out the radar with some washers.... Basically it sounds like you have more a software/physical type of issue here.
     
  10. MWTechGuy

    MWTechGuy Bobtail Member

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    The government and OEMs did do a study on that. The synopsis was that the systems aren't perfect, they do have false positives and would like to see the tech improve. But overall road safety (collisions/fatalities/accident-insurance costs) were lower with the systems than without. One of the big challenges it notes is driver acceptance, so that would suggest they know it's making some drivers mad, and they would like to see that fixed:

    Office of Crash Avoidance Research Technical Publications | NHTSA
    Report: Field Study of Heavy-Vehicle Crash Avoidance Systems, | NHTSA
    Large-Scale Field Test of Forward Collision Alert and Lane Departure Warning Systems (nhtsa.gov)
     
  11. LoneRanger

    LoneRanger Road Train Member

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    Needs radar alignment, had the same issue on my Cascadia, seems the vibrations cause it to point up enough for it to catch the bridge.
     
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