Want to Buy a used truck and learn this business

Discussion in 'Questions From New Drivers' started by Newbee1, Dec 18, 2009.

  1. Newbee1

    Newbee1 Bobtail Member

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    Dec 18, 2009
    Kingston Ontario
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    Hello to everyone here.
    I will post a little background here to help the pros here determine whether I have a chance at being successful in this business after I explain my reasons for entering this business and basic plan.
    I just sold my small contracting company and began to develop my (Ontario Canada) waterfront property into a residential subdivision. This will require a long waiting period while environmental studies are being done.
    I am contemplating buying a used highway tractor and hiring an experienced professional driver to drive the truck and train me to drive. I have 24 years experience managing my own contracting company and have won several awards for safety including 17 years in a row with no lost time accidents. Average # of employees was around 20 during this period of time. Safety has always been my first priority in any job I have been involved with, and my former employees honored me with a plaque thanking me for this commitment regardless of the cost .
    I have designed specialized heavy equipment for our own use and resale, so have a strong background in mechanical systems, hydraulics, electronics, diesel engines etc. I also build mild drag racing engines as a hobby with my kids.
    I have a clean driving record and tend to drive below the legal limit when driving something heavy or large and always drive defensively. No accidents in 32 years of having a car/motorcycle license.
    However.... I have no experience at all driving a class 8 vehicle other then driving our Western Star tractor short distances for off highway moves on the bush roads near ft. Mcmurray Alberta Canada. I always had an experienced driver looking after our equipment moving needs. He managed every aspect of trucking our equipment including permits and licensing etc. That leaves me with basically zero experience in this industry
    My first (and most time sensitive) question is about the truck I wish to buy. (I should decide to accept or decline the owner's offer very soon, so I don't potentially cause him to miss an opportunity to sell it elsewhere).
    It is a 1999 Peterbilt 379 with a Cat C12-430 ,13 speed trans , 40,000 lb rears, Jake brake, proheat, auxiliary heater mid rise sleeper, aluminum wheels, 3.55 ratio. It is equipped with a TV, fridge and even a custom wood steering wheel that the OO says he paid over 2000 CAD for! I cant remember the maker of the steering wheel but I was a quietly skeptical that a steering wheel could cost this much? It also has a very high quality sound system.
    The history of this truck is extremely well documented and shows engine oil changes ocurring at only 5000 mile intervals since new.
    The truck has a little over 2,000,000 miles on it. Visually it looks like brand new inside and out! It is truly beautiful and looks just like the new trucks it is parked beside although much less aerodynamic.
    It has just passed a safety inspection and required nothing to be certified other then a brand new windshield due to a 10 inch crack in the original. The tires are all rated at 70% life remaining.
    The rear ends have never been replaced or repaired but were carefully inspected by my former mechanic and showed no abnormal wear. Oil change intervals were every second engine oil change according to the logs and lucas stabilizer was used as a suppliment.
    The engine had it's bearings replaced (inframe) 200,000 miles ago. I do not know if this means just the main crank bearings, or main and both big and small end rod bearings replaced. (I forgot to ask but would appreciate it if someone here could explain typical bearing replacement procedure while engine is inframe).
    The engine developed a miss just before it went up for sale. A work order was started and it ended up getting a complete cylinder head rebuild including a valve job, valve seats, crack testing, new springs etc.
    The camshaft was also replaced with an OEM Cat camshaft. The original cam had 2 lobes worn beyond spec. All 6 injectors were tested on a bench and 2 were replaced due to being slightly out of spec. The engine has 20,000 miles on it since this work was done. It has no oil or coolant leaks anywhere.
    It also had the clutch replaced while the cylinder head was being rebuilt by Cat.
    The truck was test driven for me and drives straight and tight with no vibration or wind noise, rattles etc. The test driver is used to 1 to 2 year old trucks and remarked that this truck is a pleasure to drive and has a decent amount of power for a "smallblock" engine. (his current truck has an ISX 600 with a chip. I am hoping the smallish engine will return decent fuel mileage when hauling moderate loads that are suited to the power train combo in this unit. I have been using 6mpg as an average in my gross revenue calculations.
    The asking price is 18,000 Canadian for this truck but we have agreed to a straight across trade for my boat which is valued at about the same.
    Is 2 million miles just too many to consider the truck safe and reliable even though it has been well maintained and the engine rebuilt? Will I have a hard time finding work due to the age and mileage of the truck (10 years old)?
    The owner has just retired from trucking and has been looking for an inexpensive cruiser to spend time with his wife on in the summer thus a perfect fit for us both.
    My second question is about finding work in Southern Ontario for this truck? My land development is near the 401 corridor on Lake Ontario 2.5 hrs from Toronto and 4 hours from Montreal. I would like to stay close to home since I am a single Dad raising 3 boys by myself, with the help of a wonderful live-in Nanny. I have an acquaintance that has agreed to train me and drive the truck while I am learning and then use me as a relief driver while he takes days off. He has over 20 years of accident free driving of many different configurations.
    Is there much work available for a tractor based out of this area (Kingston Ontario)?
    Alternatively I have several friends in Western Canada whom own trucking companies and will feed me jobs... in the Western USA and Canada until I can find work in my preferred area of Eastern Ontario.
    So, am I out to lunch with my choice of truck, crazy to think I can just buy a truck and go right to work with an experienced driver...in my chosen region?
    I have recently found that I really enjoy the freedom from the pressure of owning a contracting company with numerous employees. I know that there are sometimes significant pressures involved with owning and operating a highway truck but believe I will enjoy the freedom from constant 18 hour days. At 46 years old I also know enough to ask for help and opinions from the voices of experience, and this forum seemed like the best place to start.
    I just started reading posts here yesterday and have found the experts here are very patient with Newbs like me.
    I apologize for the extremely long post here but I wanted to be clear about my plans and don't wish to find out I made a life changing mistake because I didn't listen to those whom know better. I also have 3 wonderful kids who will suffer from my screw-up if my career change plan fails because of my lack of experience in a very competitive industry. I don't personally need to make my entire living from the truck's revenue but my hired driver will have to earn enough to comfortably support his family of 4. I expect at first all the revenue will go to my driver but hope to start getting a return on my investment after our first year in business and we have earned the trust of our potential clients.
    Any opinions on my truck choice will be welcomed whole heartedly as well as advice about working in Ontario Canada. I am spending hours reading other posts already but if there are any specific threads that I should read, please post a link or description of the topic.
    Thank-You very kindly to anyone whom read all the way through this long winded post. In case you haven't noticed, I am quite excited about hitting the highway in my new Pete and tuning into channel 19!!
    Rob Staples, Kingston Ontario
     
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  3. Allow Me.

    Allow Me. Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

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    Rancho Mirage, Ca.
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    It sounds like the previous owner took really good care of this truck, BUT, it will wear out at some point. 2 million miles would make me shy away. For not much more, you can find 5 year old trucks with under 500,000 miles. Your plan to hire a friend to run the truck and teach you to drive is as good as any. With other friends able to give you loads will help also. Just my opinion.
     
  4. John Miles

    John Miles Medium Load Member

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    Nov 14, 2009
    Monroe, NC
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    2 million miles is a bit much ... things that aren't supposed to break seem to start breaking anyway due to metal fatigue. The one thing that will throw your plans out of wack is time and money spent in shops for repairs while your on-time deliveries suffer.
     
  5. Newbee1

    Newbee1 Bobtail Member

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    Dec 18, 2009
    Kingston Ontario
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    I guess that was my biggest concern. What happens to the thousands of heavy trucks out there that reach 2,000,000 miles and are otherwise in great shape? Is it unusual for a 10 year old tractor to have this many miles on it? Is there anything specifically I should look for that is in danger of failing at this high mileage?
    I looked at some other trucks in this price range and none of them were as physically clean as this one.
    The main reason I like this truck is that it was the owners last truck before he retired and he wants to trade for my boat for him and his wife to relax on and fish etc. He seems very nice and had to retire due to health problems. The boat will be a perfect way for him to enjoy his retirement with his family.
    The market value of my boat is 20,000 (1986 28ft twin engine aft cabin cruiser on a HD trailer) . I had it offered for 15,000 cash or equal trade. Obviously not many folks looking for a boat in December up here.
    In your opinions, what is the value of this Tractor based on my description? I dont know if it is an option or standard, but the cab is on an air ride . Also, everything works on the truck right down to the smallest option or light bulb. This was the only rig that I found where absolutely everything worked perfectly.
    I am not trying to convince anyone that this is a good deal, just trying to describe the truck as best I can to get opinions from the pros here.
    Thank You very kindly to those whom responded to this Newb!
    Rob
     
  6. doubledragon5

    doubledragon5 Road Train Member

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    Jun 8, 2008
    Lewisville TX
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    I work with a guy how had his own business since he was 2yrs old. Now he is 56 gave it up because he had heart surgery, and went in to a company truck.. He told me his last truck had well over a million miles on it when sold.. He did no major work on it has he kept up with maintenance. The truck today is still on the road, and that was two yrs ago.. I do see the other posters concern, but if you like it and the owner kept it up then go for it.. Just be sure you have the $$$ available just in case it does give you problems just my 2 cents..
     
  7. Allow Me.

    Allow Me. Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

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    Rancho Mirage, Ca.
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    Newbee1, you keep mentioning how pretty the truck is etc. What you need to be concerned with is the mechanical condition. A worn out truck can get a new engine/trans etc. You are in a harsh area, and vehicles take a good beating, as you know. I'm sensing you want to do this deal, well, go ahead. It may work out for you or it may not. There are no guarantees in life, right?
     
  8. Newbee1

    Newbee1 Bobtail Member

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    Dec 18, 2009
    Kingston Ontario
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    Yes, I am mentioning that it is pretty to try and portray the meticulous care and attention that this truck has been subjected too during its life cycle. It indicates to me that this truck was also well looked after mechanically as well.
    I have very little experience buying on-highway equipment but when I bought off-highway heavy equipment I paid very little attention to the hour meter. I was more concerned with the components that make up the major systems. On an excavator I would get an undercarriage inspection, check the pressures in all hydraulic circuits , and engine health via blow by rate, cold starting performance, injection system service records, electrical system function, a visual bushing check and a good test run. Basically you can tell how much you need to spend on it after a thorough inspection and work out its projected profit making potential. I rarely bought new since downtime was more expensive then the repairs and warranty repairs always took much longer due to waiting lists here in Western Canada. Id rather have my own guys fix it immediately.
    The main reason I like this truck is the fact that the owner is quite a nice guy whom had to give up his truck due to health issues, the truck didnt give up on him. He was planning on buying a boat to relax with and I just happen to have 1 too many boats.
    I am trying to figure out what components have a high risk of failure due to such high mileage. These trucks remind me alot of the off road equipment I have owned. They are basically a platform for multiple outsourced components, that are all replaceable and or rebuildable.
    I guess I was curious if stories like doubledragons were indeed quite common or very rare.
    I know it appears that I am fixated on this truck but I assure you I would walk away in a second if I found the owner was lying about anything.

    Im just trying to find a more specific reason to not buy the truck, based on the vast experience within this forum. Due to the fact that all the major systems have been replaced or rebuilt I am wondering why it would be any riskier than buying a non rebuilt 2005 with 650,000 miles on it for twice the cash? Someone mentioned that things that don't normally break on a truck, do tend to break on the high mileage units. Are we talking frames ?
    Also, what happens to these trucks when they get beyond their useful service life? I assume they go for scrap eventually but there must be one hell of a pile of used parts available for 1990's era trucks! What happens to the N14s and 3406s that are still running nicely, but are sitting in a miled out truck? I have a boat with twin cummins VTA 903's in her and I would love to drop a pair of rto 3406 550s in her! Cat wants 70000 each for C13 marine engines!
    Anyway, Thanks again for all the opinions so far.
    Rob
     
  9. Big Don

    Big Don "Old Fart"

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    Utah's DIXIE!
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    Hey Rob, sounds to me like you have a good plan. I really don't know what to think about that truck. After all, YOU are the one who is seeing it, and having your experts check it out. But it seems to me like it might be an OK deal.

    Under most situations, I would STRONGLY DISCOURAGE a "newbie" from "buying a truck to learn the business." However, with your background, and your plan on hiring the experienced driver, it just might work out for you.

    One of the questions you ask is about finding work in your area. That is pretty much going to be up to you, to get it lined out. The other thing is will companies work with you on a truck that old. Again, a few phone calls, emails and personal contact with the companies you plan on working with are in order here.

    As far as what happens to a lot of these older road tractors, what they do is end their lives in local work, usually aggregate. Take a look at what most of the sand and gravel companies are running, and you will likely find old road tractors.

    Some also end up on farms, or mine sights.

    It really looks like you need to do some background work here on where you are going to go with this. This forum is a good place to start, but keep in mind that what you are hearing is opinions.

    To get the facts, and more importantly to put those contracts in your pocket, you need to be contacting customers.

    Good luck man, I really think from what you have posted here, that if anyone can "make it happen," it will be you!
     
    southernpride Thanks this.
  10. jtrnr1951

    jtrnr1951 Road Train Member

    Too many (less than beatiful), but low mileage trucks available -at the right price !! 11 years old with 2 million miles, thanks but no..........
     
  11. RenegadeTrucker

    RenegadeTrucker Road Train Member

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    Dec 25, 2009
    Montana
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    Here is my .02, jumping into the trucking business trying to be an owner opp with absoutely no experince in it, it sounds like a great way to turn 200K into 100K

    I would strongly sugjest that you go work for some one else first, learn the ropes, and then get out there in your own truck.

    Also, 2,000,000 miles on a rig would make me not walk but run away from it, so would the C-12.

    I ran a 3406E with a 18 double over, I averaged between 5.5 and 6mpg overall and I liked to be confortable so I idled alot. An APU would definately help with that quite a bit.

    I dont care for the small power engines for a very spacific reason, there are times with that motor you will be floor boarded when I am cruzing, IE fighting a high wind. As well there are times that extra little bit of power can be the difference between getting up a hill easy, and having it be a long drawn out work the snot out of the engine process.

    For instance highway 12 in montana/idaho going over LoLo pass, its a twisty windy 2 lane highway, when I started driving I was running a T2000 with an auto shift and cummins 460, not a bad rig, I was pulling a high cube tripple axle non slider at the time. when I bought my own truck, a W900L with a 3406E 550hp with the 18 double over, pulling the same trailer with the same load in it, I could get from Missoula to Boise 2 full hours faster.

    It was simply because in the W9 I could climb 10-15 mph faster than the T2000, and I could roll off the other side signifigantly faster.

    I dont know about you, but for me I can do a lot with that 2 extra hours, that can be the difference between getting empty and getting reloaded so you can take a nap and run all night, it can be the difference between getting 4 and 6 hours of sleep, it can be the difference between getting unloaded today or tomorrow. Expecially if you have a pickup the next day that is more than a couple of hours away.

    Also, id prefer a flat top sleeper with no windows over a big condo with lots of windows and space, you are crawling back there to sleep, you want it dark. I know not everyone shares this philosiphy, but it is mine. I had an aero cab aerodyne, and I wound up taping the curtians in the sleeper to block out the little bit of light that would get in and wake me up.

    Also, you will want a fridge installed in the sleeper.
     
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