What is tail swing and why is it a problem?

Discussion in 'Experienced Truckers' Advice' started by MACK E-6, Apr 29, 2024.

  1. Cattleman84

    Cattleman84 Road Train Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    9,925
    Thanks Received:
    70,824
    Location:
    The Sticks, Idaho
    0
    I had to do that once... As a last ditch effort. But granted it was the last axle of pup trailer on my tank train that was rolling backward.
     
    Hammer166 Thanks this.
  2. gentleroger

    gentleroger Road Train Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    7,499
    Thanks Received:
    20,381
    0
    Can you start with the yard jockeys please?
     
    motocross25 and Hammer166 Thank this.
  3. Long FLD

    Long FLD Road Train Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2015
    Messages:
    11,936
    Thanks Received:
    49,148
    0
    I just wish the industry in general would stop referring to KPRA regs as bridge laws. Bridge laws deal with weight, KPRA regs do not.
     
  4. Hammer166

    Hammer166 Crusty Information Officer

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Messages:
    7,460
    Thanks Received:
    27,046
    Location:
    ~8600+' and loving it!
    0
    I was talking to a non-trucking friend this weekend about this. (They have hell with drivers who can't back into their location.) I told her that in 40 years I didn't need all the fingers of one hand to count the number of times I've turned that tight.

    Good luck with that! Especially with everything devolving to least common denominator standards for training, education, industry protocols, etc.

    We regularly get bulletins from Ford that make ya wonder if 3rd graders are hauling cars somewhere, because an adult surely doesn't need this infantile guidance.
     
    expedite_it and Long FLD Thank this.
  5. IH Truck Guy

    IH Truck Guy Road Train Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    4,372
    Thanks Received:
    50,026
    Location:
    Purgatory
    0
    20230313_095955.jpg
    What's a little tailswing? Lol
     
  6. Spardo

    Spardo Medium Load Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2024
    Messages:
    515
    Thanks Received:
    2,594
    Location:
    St. Front la Riviere, France
    0
    I have never knowingly seen sliding tandems in the EU so in one sense you should think yourselves lucky to have a choice in a tight situation. To my mind one reason tail swing hits occur is partly through embarrassment. It shouldn't be considered 'sissy' if you have any doubt in a tight situation to get out, walk back, and have a check before anything bad happens.
    Despite our shorter trailer lengths we probably have more old cities with tight junctions so it is a problem here. My theory when approaching a 90 degree turn where the approach road has 2 lanes, is to 'own' both of them by straddling the middle line, rather an at the extremes of either. That way I have a better chance that my 'safety zones' will not be invaded by a numpty.
     
    4wayflashers and SmallPackage Thank this.
  7. Cat sdp

    Cat sdp . .

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    Messages:
    20,997
    Thanks Received:
    73,344
    Location:
    Orion's Belt
    0
  8. Hammer166

    Hammer166 Crusty Information Officer

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Messages:
    7,460
    Thanks Received:
    27,046
    Location:
    ~8600+' and loving it!
    0
    Concorde and Cat sdp Thank this.
  9. Ex-Trucker Alex

    Ex-Trucker Alex Road Train Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2023
    Messages:
    1,412
    Thanks Received:
    2,408
    0
    You European guys don't have it quite so bad; a 45' trailer there is considered long, whereas we evolved past 45' trailers 50 years ago. Today the standard is 53', and in almost 1/2 of states 57' is legal. You almost never see a single trailer shorter than 48' (which were common about 40 years ago).

    Also, our kingpins are set back between 3' and 4' from the nose of the trailer; most European trailers it's more like 6'. You guys have to deal with more NOSE-swing than we do, but do you ever have 13' (4m) from your rearmost axle to the end of your trailer? Additionally, you guys drive what we would classify as a single-width sleeper cabover (even if it does extend upward..) further enhancing your maneuverability.

    In a way, your fixed 3-axle trailer combos are all pretty similar, which means that backing the trailer up it will always react the same way. Most van trailers (and a lot of flatbeds, too) have sliding tandems. Bulk haulers, livestock trailers and household moving trailers rarely do, however.
     
  10. Spardo

    Spardo Medium Load Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2024
    Messages:
    515
    Thanks Received:
    2,594
    Location:
    St. Front la Riviere, France
    0
    While first giving the caveat that I am 21 years retired and don't need to know this stuff anymore, broadly speaking you are correct.
    If we were to nose into a parking spot in a truckstop for example, perhaps to sleep at the other end of a frigo next door, apart from the obvious making sure we don't drag the back end across the wagon next door, we do have to be very careful of the nose swing of the trailer. However all that stuff comes as 2nd nature to experienced drivers

    When I first started in the early '60s most trailers were only 28, then 33 feet long and many with the hidious 4 in line axle configuration. 2 short axles side by side with a large wheel at the end of each. The axles were suspended from the chassis and were hinged to allow the wheels to go up and down with the terrain, hence the horrible term, oscillating bogies. They were very unstable and needed special care and understanding especially if you had a flat tyre because the whole axle tilted down on that side. They were popular with hauliers though because the law allowed those 4 wheels to be counted for weight purposes equal to a standard 8 wheel tandem. No problem with swing though, they were usually near the back of the trailer.

    Then 40 foots to cope with the container revolution and later, possibly after the EU connection, what I believe now are 13 metres for standard trailers. European kingpins were even longer than ours in the early days, making picking up unaccompanied trailers at the docks a problem for some cabs which could not be used because of the close swing.

    Of course your permissably longer tractors, while nice for you in a large comfy sleeper also have an affect on manoeuvrability. A fascinating subject and if my application to M S Carriers back in the early '90s had been successful I might know a little more about your situation by now. ;-)
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2024
    MACK E-6 and SmallPackage Thank this.