When to sign logbook???

That signature says that you say what's on that log is 100% accurate. That signature removes any possible defense you could ever have against a ticket because of your log. You signed it, you certified that it's correct. You lose that case every single time. If it's NOT signed at the time of the ticket, you can try to fight it, and actually form a defense and have a chance of getting out of the ticket.

Basically, if you signed that log, it's a guilty plea in court.

Hold off on signing until the end of your shift, or when you can stop and actually check it over and make sure that everything is correct.

 

I don't really understand why you are so determined to put something in the FMSCA rules that's NOT THERE. You re not understanding that this is a two part process. Part one of the process is that day. That day means that days log has to have certain things before you can legally drive. The signature part has no bearing on this requirement. If your not on line 3 and this is discovered by a state officer your subject to get a ticket. If per chance you have not kept up with your past 7 days logs correctly you are not only subject to a ticket but you might be put out of service. If you have not flagged a pre trip you might get ticketed. The 2nd part of the process is after that days log is finished. Then you certify it and turn them in. Then if its later determined you turned in a false log you are subject to sanctions. I guess you could try turning in an unsigned log, but if you do a sharp eyed person at your company will send it back to you incomplete.

 

I just want to add something and I'm out of this. Hopefully most of the green drivers that come in here are on e-logs and this signing thing is just a moot point, but regardless please be careful with this.

 

I'm not talking about the FMCSA rules, I'm talking about you got a ticket and you want to go to court to fight it. By signing BEFORE the log is COMPLETE, you lose ALL POSSIBLE DEFENSE in court because by signing the log you CERTIFY THAT'S COMPLETE AND CORRECT. So, any intelligent person would understand that you don't sign until the log is COMPLETE, and YOU'VE CHECKED IT OVER TO MAKE SURE IT'S ACCURATE.

What is so hard to understand?

 

Because you are trying to bring the state in when the FMCSA is the ruling body. You've got all the proof you need to show the court that the log is to be signed at the end of the day or shift and the company sets that time up. They can run a shift 3pm to 3pm or 6pm to 6pm or 12 midnight to 12 midnight it doesn't matter what time they choose so long as it's a 24 hour day. The regulations also state that you are to sign when the day is over certifying the entries are correct. You're 100% correct on that one. All the references are listed in my other post on this thread except where the governing regulations are from the FMCSA when the truck is a CMV running more than the 100 mile rule. I'm not going to look and list that one for you but basically it says that any new rules have to come out in the Federal Register and is revised at least once each calendar year.

 

You're missing the point. By signing that log, YOU CERTIFY THAT IT IS COMPLETE AND CORRECT. It's written right there on the log.

That means that ANYTHING that is on that log when DOT looks at it and scans a copy, is IN YOUR WORDS EXACTLY what happened. If you go to court to fight that ticket, you lose, because that log is you admitting that you're guilty of what you're being ticketed for. That's how it's going to go every single time. You will NEVER win a court case against a log that you personally signed.

By holding off signing the log until AFTER you're done for that 24 hour period, or on your next stop after midnight when that log page is complete (notice they're saying when you're done logging stuff on that PAGE of the log, you sign it, if it's during your current shift, you're allowed to wait until your next stop), you then get to check and make sure everything is accurate, correct any mistakes, THEN sign and certify that it's accurate. This also gives you room to get a lawyer and fight whatever your ticket that you got mid-shift is for. A mistake on a log will typically cost way less than breaking the 11 hour rule because you confused time zones.

We're talking from a completely legal situation. If that log is signed before you start logging, whatever is on the log is taken as your personal testimony against yourself in court.

NEVER sign ANYTHING before it's complete and checked for accuracy. This applies to EVERYTHING, logs, contracts, BOLs, paychecks, the lease for your apartment, your auto-insurance policy... The FMCSA doesn't set a specific time, only a deadline. But if you sign before you start the shift, you're an idiot, because that makes any mistakes, not a mistake anymore, it's what actually happened.

 

I really enjoy the lawyers that drive trucks on here!

 

It's not "being lawyers" it's common f'n sense.

Imagine this in court:

Prosecutor: Did you drive past the 11 hour rule?
You: No
Prosecutor: Then why did you sign your log saying that it's accurate that you drove past 11 hours?

Please, enlighten us to how you'd answer that to try fight that ticket.

 

If there is a mistake on a driver’s RODS, they can (and most likely will) receive a citation; signature or no signature (see below). The only thing a driver might be able to avoid if the log is unsigned is a log falsification citation... if they can tell a compelling story, the enforcement officer got up on the right side of the bed and the planets are aligned.

Question 3: If a driver’s record of duty status is not signed, may enforcement action be taken on the current day’s record if it contains false information?

Guidance: Enforcement action can be taken against the driver even though that record may not be signed. The regulations require the driver to keep the record of duty status current to the time of last change of duty status (whether or not the record has been signed). Also, §395.8(e)states that making false reports shall make the driver and/or the carrier liable to prosecution.

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/395.8?guidance​

 

Thank you! I knew that was in the guidance section but was trying to explain this without posting that link. It is confusing though because drivers forget the log unsigned is still a legal document. Its a legal document because you can't legally drive without starting the log, and because IT IS A LEGAL DOCUMENT you can be held responsible for its accuracy at any time during your driving day.