Why CSA 2010 and E-Logs are a good thing.

2 wrongs don't make a right. E-logs are being pushed because some say they enforce compliance of HOS BUT they don't. We all already know anyone can cheat if they want on paper. What matters is people can still cheat even running E-logs. So why are they being pushed. I am an owner operator and I should not have to spend my money on this garbage. Paper and pen is cheaper for me and alot of the other guys out here. I have heard a couple guys saying they make more money running E-logs than they did when they ran illegal and I must say they must of not been running illegal the right way as I guarantee I would make way more money weekly than an e-log guy. I very rarely run "illegal" so from what I have read and saw for myself in the years I have been driving is most of the company drivers are the ones running Illegal as they barely make ends meat for the weeks they spend out on the road so they allow their dispatchers to push them around and now that is causing the small guys or owner ops to get punished for something they didn't do wrong.

 

Yes sir they did. We bobtailed around for 14 hours in Portland counting empty trailers neither of us had sleep before they dispatched us on a load. By the time we were loaded at the last pickup we had to average 65mph nonstop to Houston. We stopped to get some rest. The Qualcomm buffer was full to call in. Never late on a load never refused a load either. When I explained no way for us to make it after we were loaded so we stopped to get some rest I was told " sleep was not an option." I called Schneider back and went back to work for them solo.

The only time I will chain up is to get to a safe place to park so I'm off the road and not on a ramp like a moron.

I don't need it to tell me when I'm sleepy I shut down. I still drive like I have for years. The biggest advantage I can see is with new drivers not getting in the same bad habits all of us did.

PC http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/rulemakings/040497.pdf

49 CFR §395.8

[h=2]J. J. Keller's Idea of the Week - Understanding Personal Conveyance: Is it really personal use?
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by J. J. Keller's FleetMentor on Friday, June 11, 2010 at 12:18pm ·

Understanding personal conveyance

Under certain conditions, the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations allow commercial motor vehicle (CMV) drivers to drive their CMVs for personal use without risking violation of the hours-of-service limits. The use of a CMV for “personal conveyance” is common, but is often misunderstood. Do your drivers understand the rules?

In concept, the idea is simple: if you’re driving a vehicle for your own personal use (whether a family car or a Class 8 truck), then it’s not really a “commercial” vehicle at the time, so your driving time shouldn’t count against you. In practice, it gets a little more complicated.

Try as you might, you won’t find mention of “personal conveyance” in the regulations. Rather, it’s based on some DOT guidance that was first published in 1975. Here is that guidance in its current form, relating to 49 CFR §395.8:

Question 26: If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?

Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver's home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver's terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver's en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden [i.e., loaded]. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrier's CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home. A driver placed out of service for exceeding the requirements of the hours of service regulations may not drive a CMV to any location to obtain rest.​

Stated more plainly, these are the requirements for claiming that a movement is "personal use" that can be logged off duty:

• The driver must be operating a completely empty vehicle, either bobtailing or with no cargo onboard. This also means that if you’re driving a utility truck full of tools (even if your business is a private one), you can’t claim the “personal use” exception.
• The driver must not perform any work involving the company or the vehicle while driving or as a result of driving (e.g., traveling at the direction of the company). In other words, the driver must be completely relieved of all responsibility to the vehicle and the company.
• The driver must be en route to or from home (i.e., commuting), to or from eating or lodging facilities, or to or from some other “personal” destination. If the driver stops at a company facility to drop off some paperwork on the way home, the movement cannot be considered “personal.” Similarly, a driver who travels home from the last stop (bypassing the “normal work reporting location”) must log that trip as “driving.” However, the personal use exception would be available to drivers who report to a temporary reporting location, such as a construction site, and who drive to and from a local lodging or eating facility.
• The driver must not be the subject of an out-of-service order at the time.
• Finally, the driver must not be “repositioning” the truck or tractor for a business purpose. This is the one that often catches drivers and carriers off guard. For example, a driver who leaves a trailer in one town, goes home, and then picks up a different trailer in a different town cannot use the exception. This generally means that the “personal use” must be a round trip and not one-way, although a driver could commute to home as “off duty” and then log “driving” when going from home to a shipper the next day (i.e., if he/she is dispatched from home).

If the trip can be logged “off duty,” it means that there will be no violations of the driving limits or the on-duty limits during that drive time, and the time spent driving would not count against the 60- or 70-hour on-duty limits.

What about …

Fueling? Any time spent fueling a CMV or doing any other type of conditioning or servicing of the vehicle must be recorded as “on duty” time, even if it’s the weekend and the driver used the “personal conveyance” exception to take the truck home. This is especially true given that the “conditioning” and at least some of the fuel will likely be used for a business purpose, unless the driver can argue that the whole tank was used for personal conveyance. Which leads us to…

Distance? Did you notice that the above guidance makes no mention of distance traveled? There is no official limit to the amount of time or miles that could be spent driving a CMV for personal use and logging it “off duty,” just like there are no mandates saying what drivers “must” do during any other off-duty time. In theory, a driver could bobtail from the home terminal in Chicago to visit relatives in San Diego and log it all as “off duty” — getting a 34-hour restart along the way. Of course, it’s up to the company to decide if this type of CMV usage is authorized. Long-distance personal use may be scrutinized closely by enforcement officers and DOT auditors, so your records should verify that the use was in fact personal.

The 10-hour break? As suggested above, time spent driving “off duty” will count as part of a driver’s consecutive 10-hour break. For example, if a driver commutes home in a CMV for 2 hours, rests for 6 hours, and then commutes back to work for 2 hours, it would count as a valid 10-hour break, as odd (and dangerous) as that may seem. Again, this is based on the fact that there are no restrictions on what a driver can do during his or her off-duty time, as long as the driver is truly “off duty.”

Authorization? It is ultimately the company’s responsibility to authorize or not authorize personal use of the company’s CMVs, although the DOT does not require written authorization. Motor carriers should check with their insurers to discuss coverage issues, and have policies and training in place so that drivers know exactly when they can use company CMVs for personal conveyance.

Copyright J. J. Keller & Associates, Inc.

 

I don't know what all this ramble is about you just typed on here? Personal conveyance does not apply while under a load or under dispatch so your ramble has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. E-logs are not perfect and drivers can legally be out of compliance by using them so they defeat the intended purpose.

 

it's a response to the guy that said something like: where are they personal conveyance regulations listed...blah blah blah company allows 25 miles per day.

 

The only way to be 100% compliant using elogs is for the brakes to set themselves automatically when you run out of hours or for the engine to shut off when you are out of hours. The whole idea of elogs making drivers more compliant is nothing but a farce. It is smoking mirrors. It gives the illusion of forcing drivers to be compliant, but in reality it only records what is happening at the time. Elogs do nothing more than a driver can do himself using paper logs. What elogs do is make a few people who invest or manufacture these products, billions of dollars. Some carriers require drivers to also keep a paper log in case the elog fails. That defeats the purpose of having elogs.

 

Have no clue where that came from but let me explain,

I have no issues with regulations, just part of the job and standards set forth drivers must meet. It is all good, really I have no issues with it.

But it is all too common anymore to find people that could not drive across a one horse town without getting lost being in charge of truck drivers, they fail to understand which side butters the bread or even could never be capable of driving a truck.

They are not tested for alcohol or illegal drugs nor even prescription drugs that may induce unsafe decision making or possibly risk others lives or safety.

They are not monitored nor are they liable for stupidity like the very drivers they are in charge of.

They have no clue about driving a truck, but they preach it like they do. But hey anyone can be book smart, but they are incapable of practicing what they preach and mock drivers when ever they can.

My statement was not about doing what ever I desire nor endorsing others to do the same, it is all about practical standards that should be enforced with individuals in charge of drivers.

 

Actually that is addressed somewhere....I remember a discussion we had about that exact subject...."anyone who has authority of a driver and his/her movement"....it will take me a little time to find it...but I will!

 

That came from the ramblings of my mind, it's awesome in there I should sell tickets. I'm all for the setting standards for office folks as well. I don't think you need to have driven to be able to work in the office however. Every office position is about customer service, with the driver being the customer.

Your dispatcher should be catering to your needs and going to bat for you with your issues. Essentially they should be your voice to the rest of the office staff. They should fight for you and try to do everything in their power to meet your needs. There will be times when they'll fail to meet your needs and may need to ask your for favors, or but you in a bad situation, but those times should be few and far between.

Your safety team should be working for you to help you prevent violations. They should look at what your doing (logs) to see what they can help you with so the DOT guy doesn't nail you. Additionally, what we do is monitor the EOBR data to see if there are other issues, excessive speeding, sudden deceleration, roll stability. When we identify an actual event, we contact the driver to see what happened. Often times the drivers explanation holds water and we thank them for preventing a potential accident and move on.

I'd go on and on, but I'm getting bored and it's cold here sitting by the patio door.

 

Now I am not pointing this at you but towards all company's. EOBRS are being pushed upon us by stating they enforce compliance of HOS regulations, right? So what does the fact I speed or brake suddenly have to do with HOS? I would think it would be more harmful for a safety guy to be calling me and asking hey VOLVO I see here that you were running a little fast and I need to know why or Hey Volvo I see here on my computer that you hit your brakes a little to hard and I need to know why. Who cares as it has nothing to do with HOS? Just something I have been wondering about since I shouldn't have to tell a safety guy that some dumbbutt just cut me off without warning. I have a job to worry about not reporting in to someone inside an office not knowing whats going on out here on the road.

 

That concern is legit, and quite frankly we'd never get off the phone if we called every driver that was above the posted limit. So we've set thresholds for tolerance. We contact anyone that has a one time incident of speed greater than 13 above the posted limit, and 3 or more instances of 10 above the posted limit in a week.

As for the hard braking events we're looking at instances of decelerating 10 mph/sec or greater. Try it once, you'll remember when you slow down like that. We typically call about 3 people a day for this. The only real issues we've had with EOBR is the roll stability. We have identified 2 drivers that go into exit ramps too fast on a regular basis. When you're on a 25 mph cloverleaf ramp and your going 39, nothing good is going to happen.