Why do so many Americans hate European trucks?

Scania use opticruse that is correct, but there are few reasons, and I think none of them is related to clutch wear. Most of these trucks in Indonesia are with 3 pedal Opticruise.

First of those 200ton trucks by Scania were R164 ga6x4hz 580 bought in 2003,

earlier Scania trucks there were p124cb6x6hz400 with 5axle trailers cca 150tonnes,

and R143EL8x4R 45046Z (actually these were 6x4 converted to 8x4 as Scania did not had RHD E class models in 4axle version ) with 5axle trailers gross weight cca 160tonnes

R164 ga6x4hz 580 had direct drive grs920r gearbox, and rbp832+rp832 diffs with 5.18 ratio,
next trucks were with new rbp835+rp835 diffs 5.14 ratio ( from 2/2004)

This combination was not good too much torque on diff and too low axle ratio, input shaft had some problems, company that operate trucks though it was created by retarder so they stop to buy retarders...


than they had 164 580 trucks built in Brazil with same gearbox and rbp835+rp835 diffs 5.14 ratio, mostly without retarder, similar problems.


Than since 2007 they get real R580 from Europe with direct grs905 gearbox, 5.14 ratio,

-2008 they sold 25% of trucks with direct grs905 gearbox and 5.14 ratio, 75% of sales consisted of grso905 gearbox and 6.5 diff ratio.

-2009 100% 6.5 ratio and overdrive grso905 gbox
-2010 100% 6.5 ratio and overdrive grso905 gbox
-2011 55% of trucks had 7.18 diff ratio and overdrive grso925 gearbox from R730, 45% of trucks had 5.68 ratio, i have heard half of trucks with 5.68 ratio were converted to 7.18
-2012 100% had 5.68 ratio and grso925 gearbox, i have heard half are converted to 7.18

-none of trucks were sold during 2013,
-2014 was better year, 110of them were sold 67% without retarder 33% with
-2015 all trucks had 7.18 and rearder

Now you cant get GRSO925 without opticruise, that gearbox dont exist in manual version, reason is big 730 engine or extra heavy duty jobs like in Indonesia put driveline to its limits, so opticruise is there to prevent driver to do mistake, that could damage driveline. It is there to eliminate small possibility driver to chose wrong gear ( if you saw video i have posted driver shift from 12th to 7th, and than from 7th to 1st gear imagine if driver did mistake and miss some gear, or had wrong timing when to shift -too early) than it reduce strain on driveline during shifts, with that much weight even most careful driver can/will hurt transmission, maybe not at one shift but duriing longer period it will be noticable.) for example when i shift, i always like to shift gears in 2 move, get out of gear to neutral ,wait a bit and than go into another gear, i dont feel good while i shift it into one move. Also i like to release clutch for a longer time and don't apply throttle almost untill release clutch completly,than when it is already in gear, i dont put all throttle at once but proportional. During gearshift engine often get lower than it is when I release clutch. So in this case driveline would speed up my engine, with low weight this is not problem,and maybe even healthier than speed shifts, but with high weights this bring shocks to driveshaft ,bearings, engine mounts, and varios other parts.



But even trucks before 2011 often had opticruise for same reasons

 

Renault wont be good, their trucks dont have flex

 

also another difficult thing in Indonesia is bad fuel ,diesel have 3500ppm of sulphur, add coal dust in air and you get really worst place for trucks....

 

Ok. closer look at Granite.

I used to work on 2012 Granite.

At first glance it is American truck, but lets get into cab.

U can see the same like Volvo screen, but really we can see that dashboard is made by VDO and just restyled for Mack style.

Ash tray - yes, from Renault.

Ok, lets go on. Engine - painted in red Volvo D13B.

Transmission - M-Drive. Guys - it is I-shift AT2512C.

Ok, made by Bosch SCR unit, and... Look at tanks! D-shaped fuel tank, like on FH-FM-FMX trucks and D-shaped plastic DEF tank..... Looking like Renault tank.

What is really made by Mack? Frame.... may be, suspention? cabin?

And IMO this Mack is.... US specified Volvo FMX

 

when i talk about construction trucks i don't like to get into extremes, Ginaf represent only minor sales, outside of NL you wont see any of them.

These trucks are not suitable for normal work, they are too heavy for our weight laws, suspension too complicated and not too much thing fit from normal trucks.

Few Terberg trucks exist here, cca. 3-4, one of them break differential 2-3years ago ( American Axlet-tech hub differential which are btw. worst I have ever seen) and since than I have not seen it.

But when I talk about normal trucks I take typical brand, typical size....

In EU typical construction truck have 4axle and 8x4 drive formula, 2front steering axles and 2rear drive axles, most countries allow 32tonnes for such truck=70550lbs, only few countries have bridge law formula, (UK Ireland, Sweden...) than you need 21ft between first and last axle.
Italy would allow 88200lbs on such truck.

Different countries use different kind of trucks.

-UK&IE use light trucks, long wheelbase, smaller engines, single reduction axles, alu wheels,often alu bodies ,without subframe, these trucks are no more than 11400kg empty (25000lbs)

-South EU use heavy 4axle chassis , largest available, with heavy rear tipper bodyworks, often with 4/10 or even 5/10 inch plate floors, those trucks are often 34500-40000lbs empty, such trucks are popular in my country too, you can load them with 140 000lbs....

-Scandinavia use several types, in Norway trucks looks pretty similar to ones in South EU, but just bigger engines, sleeper cabs, and lighter specs.

-Sweden use rear steer tag axle on 4axle chassis to reduce wheelbase, mostly rear tippers , roll off tippers etc, often cassete tippers.

-Similar in Finnland except they more use 5axle trucks and 4axle trailers.

-Most of EU use 3side tippers about 14000kg- 31000lbs empty, payload optimised versions exist too about 13000kg- 28500lbs empty) , we usually buy heavy ones about 15000kg -33000lbs and load them cca 42t or about 93000lbs

-East EU , CZ, PL, SK often use 8x6 or 8x8 to cope with mud....

Such trucks are always ( except IE and UK) hub reduction axles, all on springs, with pretty good offroad capabilities

 

but does ash tray matter when it comes to offroad? not,

does SCR matter when it comes to offroad? not,

What is built by USA does not look best for construction, for serious work you need hub reduction axles, you need spring suspension ( pretty common on Mack comparing to other NA trucks, but somebody say in USA they use only air suspension few posts before....)

Chassis and suspension have a lot to do with construction.....

 

I have seen heavy Western Star with Sisu hub reduction.
In South Africa new Scania , Volvo, Renault and many Mercedes only come with air suspension if you specially order that way.
Freightliner , and International are air suspension unless you order steel suspension.
The Mack depends on model.
The roads here are mainly as good as NA so I'm not sure why.

 

Did I , where? I thanked his post, he has the right to his opinion to. And he is in that market , working everyday. Matter of fact , I stated a few days back if in our market there are a few models I would consider buying! Worked in the trucking industry all my life. Family business was trucking . Have trained as a diesel tech, designed the specs for many fleets, worked as a paid consultant for Volvo, driven everything but tankers. You a while back , you stated our trucks looked like a train . Then your post about the Nicolas, that looks exactly like a train? The shining example of EU building best , has an American engine. We share parts , technology, engineers, and everything else. When you make untrue statements , expect corrections. Like above , emissions, NA had EGR and DPF in 07 . EGR, DPF and SCR in 2010 . EU did not get the later till 2014. We have had a tighter level in 2013 and new level coming next year.

 

I'm not surprised. Ginaf and Terberg produce very heavy construction trucks for a GVW of up to 50 metric tons, other companies simply didn't have trucks like that. But now many of the well know brands have similar trucks.

Both Ginaf and Terberg also sell mining trucks, based on conventional construction truck design, but much heavier. Those trucks are sold all over the world.

 

I think we're starting to beat a dead horse here