Why do so many Americans hate European trucks?

MACK E-6 · Apr 19, 2019

spyder7723 said: ↑

You have never proven me wrong once. Hell im still waiting from 2 years ago for you to show me how a new euro truck will increase my bottom line in my specific application.
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It won’t, but that’s not the point. The point is their machines are so much better than ours as someone condescendingly reminds us day after day, because they practically drive themselves and are designed with pressure in mind from government bureaucrats.

MACK E-6 · Apr 19, 2019

Caesar said: ↑

That's true, five seconds or so make a lot of difference. These trucks have hydraulic suspension, and sensors to automatically level the truck.

The mining trucks I showed were actually Volvo 10 x 4 and 12 x 6 trucks. The heaviest Tatra tipper at the moment is only a 60 tonne 10 x 10.

That depends of course on how many jobs with good roads you have, and how many with deep mud. If you can save lots of money by using mining trucks, they will pay for themselves, even if you can't use in more difficult jobs. That's a matter of calculating I would say.

Again, I was talking about Volvo mining trucks, not Tatra trucks. Now let's assume you want Tatra trucks. Then you can ask Tatra to use US Paccar engines and Allison gearboxes. I'm quite sure it will not be a problem for them. With the Volvo mining trucks it's a different matter. BAS mining trucks sells these things all over the world, so they have a huge warehouse with spare parts. One call to them, and the parts are on their way. They are aware of that problem as well.

You are just guessing, you have no way of knowing.

Since you can buy almost three brand new mining trucks for the price of one new articulated truck, I'm not impressed.

Again, you're just guessing because you've never made calculations with a mining truck. Others have done that, and mining trucks were far cheaper to use.

Great, this forum is about European trucks, including the Volvo mining trucks and the Tatra trucks. So, why are you on this forum if you are not interested in them?

I know that attitude. I've worked with people that never looked in the 6 feet of manuals they were given. They all worked from experience. I did read the manuals, knew where to find the information I needed. On one occasion we were able to make 10 people more or less jobless, by just applying the information in the manuals. These 10 people were not fired of course, they got other things to do.

Yes, you can buy about three 10 x 4 trucks for the price of one artic. So for less money you can have even spare 10 x 4 trucks ready for use!

These mining trucks use proper off-road tyres. I don't know about the tyre wear, but tyre wear is just one aspect of the operational costs. The total costs matter.

No, these mining trucks are a relatively new development. The artics have been around for ages. However, there is a tendency to replace artics by mining trucks where possible.

You made that 20,000 hours claim remember? So far you haven't shown any figure to support that claim.

You apparently do not know that there are American mining trucks as well. So let me show one type to you:

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Caesar said: ↑

Let me give you a hint: the producer Dramis calls it a mining truck.

Now please explain to me where this truck is road legal.
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How is it NOT road legal?

If it has working lights and brakes, and has a suitable top speed, it should be perfectly fine to register for the road.

AModelCat · Apr 19, 2019

Caesar said: ↑

These trucks can have a payload from 55 tonne (121,000 lbs) to 65 tonne (143,000 lbs). The total weight of the truck is around 83 tonne (183,000 lbs) with 55 tonne payload. Which state allows these weight limits?
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Hell if I know, I'm not American. All I know is everything I've ever stated in this thread is based off of my own personal experience, not researched. I know 100% that my eyes have witnessed twin steer tridrives going up and down the highway.

Cat sdp · Apr 19, 2019

MACK E-6 said: ↑

How is it NOT road legal?

If it has working lights and brakes, and has a suitable top speed, it should be perfectly fine to register for the road.
Click to expand...

It may be to wide.....(possibly)

Oxbow · Apr 19, 2019

I'll put my text in bold, as I don't want to waste any more time on this than necessary.

Caesar said: ↑

That's true, five seconds or so make a lot of difference. These trucks have hydraulic suspension, and sensors to automatically level the truck.

Trust me, the last thing I need is validation from you that something I said is true. Hydraulic leveling suspension and sensors automatically mean the maintenance and downtime of these trucks will be higher. Down time costs multiples of the lost revenue from one truck. Show me one with 20,000 hours on it, and then provide maintenance and downtime data, otherwise you are just guessing.

The mining trucks I showed were actually Volvo 10 x 4 and 12 x 6 trucks. The heaviest Tatra tipper at the moment is only a 60 tonne 10 x 10.

The point is the same. There is no support for Volvo mining trucks here. So your statement that I could save a fortune using them is so completely incorrect that I am surprised even you would say that.

That depends of course on how many jobs with good roads you have, and how many with deep mud. If you can save lots of money by using mining trucks, they will pay for themselves, even if you can't use in more difficult jobs. That's a matter of calculating I would say.

I challenged you to put up numbers, but you don't know enough evidently to even do that. Calculate away, put up your numbers, and then I will show you how wrong you are. Until then anything you say is purely a very uneducated guess, based on a lack of knowledge, and virtually no experience. I will repeat a common theme though; Mining trucks are not available. That should give you a bit of a clue.

Again, I was talking about Volvo mining trucks, not Tatra trucks. Now let's assume you want Tatra trucks. Then you can ask Tatra to use US Paccar engines and Allison gearboxes. I'm quite sure it will not be a problem for them. With the Volvo mining trucks it's a different matter. BAS mining trucks sells these things all over the world, so they have a huge warehouse with spare parts. One call to them, and the parts are on their way. They are aware of that problem as well.

Perfect, except that they do not have a mechanic that will be on my job no later than the following day to diagnose problems, and their website doesn't even list any way to get to schematics and parts availability. Cat SIS will give me every part of every machine that they make, the availability, and the price. Also, again, there is no Bass Mining Truck dealer, or Bass Mining Trucks, so just how in the world am I going to save a fortune using something that is not available and has no support? Go ahead, show me your calculations of what it would take for me to run these trucks.

You are just guessing, you have no way of knowing.

This comment was in regard to stiff frames not lasting 20,000. Your right, I do not know for sure. But what I do know is that any steel frame only has so many cycles of flexing in it before it falters, and I also know that traveling in terrain in which one or more wheels is off the ground will accelerate the stress on the frame. You are just guessing as well, but at least mine is an educated guess based upon experience. Your guess is based upon nothing more than furthering your point, without any experience to back it up.

Since you can buy almost three brand new mining trucks for the price of one new articulated truck, I'm not impressed.

I frankly could care less whether you are impressed or not. And no, I cannot buy three mining trucks for the price of one artic, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE. The reason that they are not available is because the area in which they are more cost effective is so narrow. Mines use big mine trucks for a reason. I am not in the mining business. I may have good haul roads for a portion of one of my jobs, which typically last 6 to 8 weeks. But a portion of my jobs will also require artics. Go ahead, put up numbers on how I can save money by bringing in mining trucks for 4 weeks, yet still have to have artics.

Again, you're just guessing because you've never made calculations with a mining truck. Others have done that, and mining trucks were far cheaper to use.

I can't make calculations using mining trucks, again, because they are not available. However, even if they were, my cost to have mining trucks just sitting there while I used the artics, and then have the artics just sitting there when mining trucks are used would be astronomical. Again, show me the numbers of what it would cost me, and I will show you emphatically just how much you don't know, and why you are so wrong. The mobilization alone would tip the scales.

Great, this forum is about European trucks, including the Volvo mining trucks and the Tatra trucks. So, why are you on this forum if you are not interested in them?

No. As @spsauerland stated, this forum is not about European trucks. It is about why Americans hate them. I thought that you could read better than that; maybe it is the language barrier?

I know that attitude. I've worked with people that never looked in the 6 feet of manuals they were given. They all worked from experience. I did read the manuals, knew where to find the information I needed. On one occasion we were able to make 10 people more or less jobless, by just applying the information in the manuals. These 10 people were not fired of course, they got other things to do.

Just imagine how useful you would have been if you had the ability, experience, and wherewithal to compliment what was in the manual, and use it in a practical way.

Yes, you can buy about three 10 x 4 trucks for the price of one artic. So for less money you can have even spare 10 x 4 trucks ready for use!

No, I can't. But I have already beat that horse to death here.

These mining trucks use proper off-road tyres. I don't know about the tyre wear, but tyre wear is just one aspect of the operational costs. The total costs matter.

Indeed, and the cost of downtime due to picking rocks out of the duals on the trucks depicted in the pictures, and the ruined or damaged tires because of this is much harder to calculate. However, every time any component of a project is down, the costs raise for every other piece of equipment on the job. One of the photos that I showed was of moving dredge tailings. The substrate ranged from 2' rocks down to sand, but all dirt had been washed out during the dredging. It would be a safe bet that any truck with dual tires wouldn't make it two rounds without getting a rock stuck in the duals. If you had any experience whatsoever this would be blatantly obvious. The artics would be lapping the mining trucks every time this happened, and then the cost of getting a tire man out with new tires from 150 miles away, the cost of new tires, and most importantly the downtime would render the mining trucks useless.

No, these mining trucks are a relatively new development. The artics have been around for ages. However, there is a tendency to replace artics by mining trucks where possible.

For once I agree with you, except that it is not possible in my work given the small scope of the jobs that I do, the lack of availability, and the necessity for artics for at least a portion of the work.

You made that 20,000 hours claim remember? So far you haven't shown any figure to support that claim.

Nor have you to support the opposite. But I did provide standard procedure for certified rebuilds with as many as 50,000 hours or more. I own a transport truck that was initially speced for logging in the steep country of the Northwest United States. It has 36,000 hours on it, and we are in the process of re-fitting it with a rebuilt engine and transmission. If were to try to use this truck in the application that I use artics for, it wouldn't have made it to 10,000 hours. What is your experience that refutes this? And what figures are you using to prove me wrong?

You apparently do not know that there are American mining trucks as well. So let me show one type to you:

Click to expand...

There is no dealer within 500 miles of me that has any of these. The only place in which they may be viable anywhere near me is in Alberta, and then only for specific applications. Look at the dual wheels, do you see a problem here? Also, in the jobs that I showed photos of, these trucks would high center leaving the cut area. Just look at the length of the wheelbase, they are not suited for rough terrain. I would be broke after one job trying to use them.
Finally, I challenged you to put together numbers that support your thesis. You have provided nothing short of the cost of new equipment. Even you should be able to understand that there is so much more involved than just the cost of equipment, and how many gallons of fuel they burn an hour. It all comes down to cost per cubic yard. You do not possess the knowledge required to calculate this evidently, or surely you would have provided something. And now you are afraid to attempt it because you are starting to realize just how much you don't know.

Oxbow · Apr 19, 2019

king Q said: ↑

I used to drive one of those back in the day.
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The pickup, or?lol

Oxbow · Apr 19, 2019

Caesar said: ↑

You have been proven wrong once more.
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Perhaps, but not by you.

Oxbow · Apr 19, 2019

Oxbow said: ↑

I'll put my text in bold, as I don't want to waste any more time on this than necessary.

There is no dealer within 500 miles of me that has any of these. The only place in which they may be viable anywhere near me is in Alberta, and then only for specific applications. Look at the dual wheels, do you see a problem here? Also, in the jobs that I showed photos of, these trucks would high center leaving the cut area. Just look at the length of the wheelbase, they are not suited for rough terrain. I would be broke after one job trying to use them.
Finally, I challenged you to put together numbers that support your thesis. You have provided nothing short of the cost of new equipment. Even you should be able to understand that there is so much more involved than just the cost of equipment, and how many gallons of fuel they burn an hour. It all comes down to cost per cubic yard. You do not possess the knowledge required to calculate this evidently, or surely you would have provided something. And now you are afraid to attempt it because you are starting to realize just how much you don't know.
Click to expand...

Please expand the original, as I put my responses within the quoted text.

spyder7723 · Apr 20, 2019

Caesar said: ↑

My complements sir, you are a person with great style, class, and inner civilization.

But I took up your recommendation, and I noticed that no state allows such weight limits on all of its roads. However, some states allow extra heavy trucks on certain highway intersections, of course with a special permit.
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My style, class, and general civility is reserved for those deserving of such.

rollin coal · Apr 20, 2019

Somebody in this thread really missed their calling in life. The potential untapped business brilliance appears to be off the charts. I would imagine Jeff Bezos is happy this guy is just an arm chair quarterback. We're lucky it's beneath him to get out here, set the world on fire, and show all of us dim wits how everything is done. What a waste of a life to sit behind a computer screen all day every day pointlessly arguing. Full of useless knowledge and never really capitalizing on any of it.

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