Why do so many Americans hate European trucks?

They have 3412's I think.

 

-scania is not particularly popular in this heavy jobs , first reasons are historical , Sweden was intact during WW2,while Germany need complete rebuild , so German manufacturers focus on construction trucks,Swedish on long haulage. Since in early heavy haulage period they used construction trucks to pull trailers for medium jobs, and some very large special trucks like Faun. But during time trucks grown up , big V10 engines get on market, strong hub reduction axles(MAN/MB were that much good , that they are almost unchanged now 43years latter) , much stronger drivelines open new possibilities , Man and MB eat their competition and left only Magirus(which had air cooled engines so heavy haulage and air cooling dont go together)


-than in 1977 Titan convert Mercedes NG 2632AS V10, 8+C gear , 6x6 to Z3242 , they put 20.9L V12 engine 420PS ,stronger gearbox with torque converter, front and read trailer couplings, heavy duty 5th wheel, and heavy duty cooling,
also they offered other configurations like 6x4,8x6,8x8 , 525PS turbo engine , from 1981 they also offered 615PS turbo intercooled engine

-Austrian Öaf make MAN F8 40.400dfas 6x6 with 16L V10 biturbo engine , same gearbox as Titan


-and this is start for serious heavy haulage trucks.Titan used to make some heavy trucks even before that but not that serious sales numbers.



-than in 1982 Mercedes bought Swiss manufacturers Saurer,Berna, and FBW and form special department called NAW(my truck was converted there as well) , already in 1983 they present 3850AS 6x6, there were some variation like 4050,4850, 8x8 also.
Redesigned cab, wider,higher roof, higher placed, 500PS 18.3L V10 turbo intercooled ,16 speed gearbox with torque converter this was very successful model

-ÖAF/MAN answer to this was 40.440dfas 6x6 , basically same truck only longer stroke engine with 440PS 17.4L, same gearbox only 8+C , and slightly modified F9 cab , which were pretty bad cabs.
this model was so outdated that most customers switch to Mercedes, or to Man 361 (more torque, 12L inline,16speed )

-after from 1985 Öaf also build 525PS version of same engine as 440 have with intercooler 16speed, but still less torque than MB

-than from 86 Öaf build V12 20.9L 700PS truck 8x8 , with automatic gearbox those are mostly sold to South Africa


-from 1985/6 Mercedes already offer pretty powerfull serial trucks , you could get V8 with 435PS as alternative,

-from 1988 480PS V8, with new generation SK cab
-soon 500pS V8
-from 1993 530 V8

also i have read this:
The special trucks 2653LZ (6x4/6x6) and 3850S (8x4) with a GCVW up to 410 tons were equipped with a diesel OM424A V12 engine with an output of 500-525 hp.


but i dont know if this is correct, i am suspicious SK should be only with V8

anyway those trucks were manufacturered until 2000, than Mercedes close NAW plant,

and Titan again start to build heavy trucks based on Actros, first 530,600 and some 570, latter with new mp2 they swich to 540 and 609, than with Mp3 to 598/653ps and important thing VIAB, before MB used WSK400 which have limited torque to 2400nm/2500nm( for 540hp version), with VIAB torque rise to 3000nm

now Mercedes custom tailored trucks from France build heavy haulage trucks with E6 engines, while E2/E5 are still build in Titan



Latter MAN story goes like this, from 1986 MAN get right for 128mm D28 V engines from Mercedes (they used same/similar plaform for engines ) but MAN did not get right to use new 128mm but continiued to use old 125mm engines , even there was one V with 128 V10 355PS without turbo , those trucks are called XX.365

-and in 1986 MAN build 460PS from same 18.3L engine as Mercedes had already on end of 1979 (same base used in 3850)
-from 1988 MAN complete F90 range with construction models as well, and start to build early heavy haulage models 41.462
-soon they uprate engine to 500PS
-and again to 600, (this is time when MAN get big sales numbers with those and Mercedes start to lose its own) but there was other thing, Man offered only 6x6 and 8x4 no other configuration while at MB you could get whatever you need, and they present their own axles which are not as good as old ones(still used by MB)

-than MAN present tga range , and complete it i think in 2002 with 41.660 bi turbo common rail same block , 12speed automated gearbox , torque limited to 2700 , it was bestseller, only as 8x4 with one wheelbase only options air/steel suspension and 2cabs

-in 2007/8 MAN present their new TGX range, with V8 16.1L 680PS , torque still limited, only as 8x4 and same 390wheelbase

-now Man will use newly developed ZF traxon torque gearbox , new 15.2L engine( some say it is based on C15) 640PS and 3000nm

-for market outside of Europe Man offer tgs ww(worldwide) 40.540 6x6 with 12.4L 540hp engine

-if you want anything else from MAN it will cost you a lot, for example for 8x6 conversion they charge 75 000€,

Mercedes was about 40 000€ more expensive in e5 range but still more popular, better quality all round, temperature stable ,more options...also in case of all wheel drive trucks, mercedes have better solition on front axle and much stronger transfer cases ( man offers 23knm , mercedes 28 )


-for markets outside of EU, Mercedes have apsolute domination , except some Astra sold in Africa , Mercedes is popular in Russia, Middle East,and everywhere else, they even sells them in Australia,

i will add some part latter i have to eat ......( i have edited text from bold Titan little bit)

 

As for Scania they get serious trucks pretty late

before during 60s they used Mack double reduced axle, but everything else was week, small 11L engine under 300hp , small gearboxes 10speed weaker driveshafts.....

from 1970 scania offer hub reduction for 4x2/6x2 and from 71 they offer hub reduction for 6x4 , from 69 they offer 350PS v8 engine, also gearboxes become larger and slower

from 1975 scania get its first heavy haulage truck LT145 , 350hp engine , 10speed range gearbox, hub reduction axles, double frame, big bogie , i have data that one of them was used to pull 200t together with 8line trailer , but this was still far from heavy , small gearbox overall ratio, no torque converter.... at that time you would use MB/MAN 26.320/2632 6x6 and get additional reduction in transfer box even they were much weaker than scania

from 1976 scania offers LT146 almost everything same , little bit update in cab and 375Hp engine with more torque,

in autumn of 1981 scania present its first torque converter gearbox, but had only 5speeds, i dont know which was max engine for it , i know for 333PS inline 6 , not sure if they ever fit any V8 to it, scania says it is for logging, offroad, construction and heavy haulage,some military trucks for tank transport had it

from autumn of 1984 Scania(Laxa special vehicles) start to build first more serious trucks for military , they chose R142EL6x4LC42KBS for base, they put front driven axle from Finish SISU, transfer box from MAN, they put crew cabs with 4door, truck remain 10speed gearbox , they put torque converter( i still dont know is it original from scania or other manufacturer) and hydraulic retarder from Voith

somewhere from 1986-1987 scania release new 10speed range gearbox for its v8 engines because normal one was problematic with high torques

in 1987 scania release its torque converter gearbox with 10speeds range , and with this get more in heavy weights

at end of 80s and beginning of 90s Scania sold some civil 6x6 heavy haulage trucks , almost same specs except 3series 453/500hp engine,even some get in Saudi Arabia

-from 1991 they get 12+2C speed gearbox with torque converter

-lot of those trucks in south east Asia even today

-from 1995/6 they release 4series and 6x6 become only available with inline engines up to 400hp , they get their own front driven axles and ZF transfer box( even some late 3series have zf)

-so max you can get was 144 530 6x4/8x4 with 14speed gearbox with torque converter and retarder( retarder was secondary so only available on high speeds , no retarder in torque converter like normal ) those trucks and 2/3series with torque converter dont have additional cooling, so heat can become problem , some trucks got it from busses

-from autumn of 2000 scania present new v8 15.6L 480 and 580hp , difference to ones before was long stroke so lot more of torque and lower rpms

-at bauma 2001 scania present first real heavy haulage truck 164g 580 8x4 , with 16speed zf gearbox and torque converter and primary retarder and heavy duty cooling,additional air compressor,....., made by Laxa

-there was no AWD options,

-in meantime they get better, get serious drawbar connections, serious tower,.....

-from 2006 Scania offers 620hp engine, very powerful engine , and scania offers it with 3000nm even gearbox and torque converter are limited to 2700



-than scania change its strategy , to dry clutch, to compete more with volvo ,because volvo already get nice sales number in this segment , volvo offered strong engine with ishift and dry clutch for better fuel, in segment of about 100-150t


-in april 2010 they presented r730 3500nm at bauma, and first time they have shown it as 6x4 heavy haulage tractor rated for 180t with dry clutch

-on bauma 2013 scania present r730 again this time with 8x4 drive formula , truck was notable by box on 5th wheel that says "up to 250t with standard components" particular truck had 3.96 diff ratio so this is not for heavy

-after that first images of r730 6x6 from Japan have appeared in mid 2012, it have worlds strongest transfer case( vg2700 rated for 35knm )
-now more and more of those 730 6x6 get to Japan, and there are some in Austria for logging

-scania say they will not build e6 trucks with wsk because development costs are too high and interest too low,

but maybe this change as big German heavy player Bender chose Scania ,they recently get another 100 of them, they get recently 3, r580 8x4, also Universal transport buy some Scania trucks including R580 8x4

-so now scania dont offer serious heavy haulage trucks except for export, ( they mostly go to SE-Asia)
-there are missing some axle configurations ......

when comparing scania until 2000, with MB scania always get some low torques on low rpm+add to that small overall ratio of gearbox and lack of awd and this truck could not do much, while MB N/A engine had constant torque , and latter turbocharged engines had lot of torque at low rpm, almost full torque at 800rpm, after 2005 mercedes drop 2 turbos for one larger

R730 8x8 for military

 

You guys ever hear of a (?) Russian truck that had a chassis made out of a pipe? Air cooled diesel as well? I heard a story once....

 

You probably talking about Tatra trucks.... They are former Czechoslovakia's trucks, Czech Republic today.

 

Parked beside some big iron in Drayton Valley AB.
C500 Tri drive winch tractor


Pulling a 24 wheel trailer

 

Russian trucks are all of classical design, cabovers ore conventionals.Now Russia tries to follow EU regulations, but russian trucks are longet than in EU (20 m from bumper to bumper)

So I suggest u say about tatra.

Yes, tatra is still in use in ex-ussr. New tatra trucks are with paccar mx engine and DAF cab.

Tatra engine is V-designed air cooled engine with belt driven fan. Driver must maintane higher RPM if engine goes hot too cool it down. Really engine is reliable, but a bit npisy

 

As others already said, you mean the Czech Tatra trucks, and indeed in the past they used V12 air cooled diesel engines. These days the Tatra Phoenix line uses Paccar diesels and ZF transmissions with a DAF LF Cab. DAF (thus Paccar) owns 20% of Tatra. However they have other types of trucks as well. These are absolutely unique vehicles. The chassis is indeed a kind of huge tube made from different segments. Inside the tube are the drive shafts and the differentials. They have independent suspension on all wheels using swing axles, just like the Volkswagen Beetle. They have air suspension, sometimes combined with steel springs, giving an enormous wheel travel. The chassis is completely rigid, doesn't flex at all like with normal trucks. Great if you build something on the chassis that should not flex, like a fire fighting truck. There are a couple of Tatra fire fighting trucks in the US to fight forest fires. This is the web site of Tatra trucks: http://www.tatratrucks.com/ (English language), just have a look. Czechs are great engineers, at least as good as Germans.

 

what fascinate me about their engines is that there was no electronics at all , they manage to build euro5 engine without


DAF LF Cab.
small correction it is CF

These are absolutely unique vehicles. The chassis is indeed a kind of huge tube made from different segments. Inside the tube are the drive shafts and the differentials. They have independent suspension on all wheels using swing axles,. They have air suspension, sometimes combined with steel springs, giving an enormous wheel travel.
i would not say enormous wheel travel, i would say less than normal trucks , but fact they are independent make difference, also they have low center of gravity

also this tube style frame is not good for ground clearance

The chassis is completely rigid, doesn't flex at all like with normal trucks. Great if you build something on the chassis that should not flex, like a fire fighting truck.


here our firefighter bodybuilders(Ziegler,Flammifer Rosenbauer and Mg Rijeka) use body suspension to allow chassis to flex and body to remain rigid to help with traction and avoid problems with body,


in my birth city in Bosnia they use Tatra for winter service, city is surrounded with 7 mountains from 1600-2000m those are short and steep inclines , and no other truck can clean snow there, when Tatra cant than it makes no sense to clean it at all, those are situations when wind blown snow of about 3m

Czechs are great engineers, at least as good as Germans.

yes, especially since this exist since 1920s , but Tatra have its weakness as well, water sometimes get inside, even with ecas uneaven tire wear, most of Tatra dont have hub reduction so lot of strain goes on differential and driveshafts, halfshafts transfer lot of forces and vibrations to differential

sometimes best is not optimal , maybe it is better to use rigid axles with coil springs

 

Proof that it's not just those boorish Americans with their 4x4s that like to play in the mud. Euros think it's fun as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoG2Inl5PEg&sns=em