Why Not Automatic?!

Yup thats what I need the next time I am haulin a D9 cat out of a cut line, I need a transmission that goes into neutral when the wheels start to slip a bit. NOT I need one you can go flat to the mat and cause some real smoke show. Forget about ice lets get down and dirty in a few cutlines. Us folks in the oil patch love our cutlines.

 

Not at all, you can throw an auto into neutral in the same way, I know driving them is different but like everything, a little practise makes perfect, anyone can drive an auto but you still need to be a real driver to operate them properly, most guys I've seen get into trouble with them just leave them in auto in all conditions, it doesn't work like that, they are designed to make life easier 90% of the time, in tricky conditions you still need to drive the thing, a fact that bewilders some steering wheel holders I've met!

I do agree with the arguement that you need to be able to use a manual too, you need to learn to drive properly before you drive an auto so you know how to handle the truck in tricky conditions and know what it's doing and why then transfer that knowledge over and not drive around thinking the truck will sort it all out!

 

Good man Jim, a fellow heavy hauler, nah the ishift generally is driven in manual in these conditions, it'll stay in any gear you select, skip as many gears as you want and shift very quickly, they are very popular with heavy haulers here running at 400,000lbs +

 

I am doomed the wife has an account of her own now. She has a new Volvo 780 with an 18 spd auto, with clutch pedal. She seems to like it and hasnt had problems with it. She does the odd heavy haul when she is not on the road.

 

LOL yes I do. I have been reading this mess of a thread, all I will say of what has been written so far is boys will be boys. I do drive a autoshift, not because I have to. The question was why not autos, when in driving school. This is after all a forum for new drivers to get answers not a playground for the opinionated. So for the new driver an automatic transmission is not used for many highways trucks. Before any of the guys rip into me for that statement, an automatic uses automatic transmission fluid as a means oc converting hoursepower from the engine into torque for the wheels. A General motors Allison transmission is a automatic. I have driven trucks with them usually yard trucks, we had one grain truck out at the farm a Ford 8000 that had one in it. Jim will remember years ago when Tim would call me to drive a 6 axle service rig to a location for him. It had an air shift 6 speed allison. The truck I have now is an autoshift the gears and lower case is just like any other 18 speed transmission, but the top has air rams that shift the transmission.
Now to answer your original question I see no reason that training companies should not use autoshift transmissions for teaching. Again before anyone bites my head off. I shift mine manually most of the time, I can start off in any gear I feel like starting in let it shift itself or shift it myself. I find it nice not to have the stick in the middle of the floor mine is on the seat at the arm rest. I would perfer to see new drivers work with the autoshifts with clutches just to get use to a clutch system. They can learn both methods manual shifting and when they need to pay more attention to traffic ect let it into autoshift. As for what happened to Jim's truck well it is his own fault you should never let the local village idiot install his own inverter into a truck. The man cannot change a headlight in a freightliner, he is 70 years old and boasts he has been driving professionally for 60 years. Not Jim the idiot he has driving that truck. He went to install an inverter, hooked up the battery end first, dropped the positive on the top of the transmission and welded the stupid cable to it. I can tell you it did cost 7000.00 for the new parts. Another lesson for the new drivers, if you dont know what you are doing get someone who does to do it for you. As for what typeof shifting system is better well that is a personal choice. I know from living with him the only way to change Jim's mind would be to give him a brain transplant. Dont even try you will save yourself a lot of frustration.

 

Most guys don't last 3 months in those starter companies. So what are they going to do when they have to get a real job. Who in the world is looking down at gears while driving in traffic. Not like looking is going to make it get in the right spot. Why did everybody else have to learn how to drive manuals but some how. Now its to difficult. Maybe they should also get drivers to back up their truck for them also. It's called the survival of the fittest. If you can hang you don't belong. Now I'm never worrying about double clutch down shifting when I see a break check. I always have come to a stop sooner with it in neutral. Plain and simple we are not going to learn everything overnight. Keep working at it and you will get it. This is what's wrong with this world. Everybody wants everything yesterday, and they don't even want to work or pay for it. Life is tough So JUST do it.

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I know what many things cost, I've seen repair invoices or picked up parts for my company and seen the charges. But you still didn't answer my question, have you removed all the electronically controlled crap from all your trucks? Ok, I'm going to slightly tone my comments, based on your other half's comments, but, you left out some important details why something cost $7,000 to repair, now that it's cleared up I will give you the benefit doubt. I would hope that the "village idiot" paid for his stupidity.

Unless you are referring to the servos on the M-drive or I-shfit, which are air actuated after an electrical current begins the process. The X/Y shifters on an autoshift are electronically activated and cost $700 to $900 a set depending on availability, either dealer or from Eaton/Fuller. AS for the air activated units, I still have not seen them for $2,000. IIRC, about 8 yrs ago, a set of X/Y shifters from Mack were $1,200 but have significantly come down in price, the last set put in my truck back in July were $750 from Mack.

The dirt hauler has been in business 15 yrs under this owner, he bought out a failing company (has actually been in business since the 80's) and turned it around. Originally they had Mack, Pete and KW daycabs with manuals, they have now gone to all M-drive automatics or autoshifts. Though I don't work for the guy I know the company history based on the salesman as well as one of his drivers lives a block from me and we talk from time to time. Five years ago, he had two of his trucks involved in rollovers and were totalled. He needed two trucks ASAP and couldn't wait for them to be ordered. Mack had three Autoshifts sitting on the lot they wanted to move and worked him a deal, they were "stock" orders, he bought two of them. All he added were wetkits and they were in use within a week. AFAIK, both trucks are still on the road daily. The total fleet size is 60 trucks, with 10 manuals still in use.

I am the senior driver (15 yrs Nov. 17th) for a small fleet of 15 trucks, 13 autoshifts, 2 manuals. At present there are 8 company drivers and one O/O (he drives a manual Freightshaker with plans to replace it with an autoshift backed Mack in 2013). No I do not directly maintian or order the trucks (although I have/will help work on my truck, oil changes, tire repairs, minor stuff, I have personally replaced the X/Y motors either in the shop or on the side of the road 4 times in the last 12 yrs and my opinion counts with things on the truck, since it is my assigned truck and I've driven it since 660 miles, now 361,000 miles I better know what is going on with it and when something is wrong, under warranty there were many times were I told them something was wrong and they met me at the dealer to drop it off, it was ME not the boss who told the shop what it was doing and what I suspected was the issue (just based on general knowledge), the company backed me it, if I said there was a problem they've never argued with me on it). As I stated, I work for a small fleet, the Mother/Father bought the company from the original owner in '82 when he retired, their kids (3 boys and 1 girl) jumped in to the company as they graduated HS. The father passed away in '97, the MOther and kids ran it until the Mother retired in '09. Now, it's the two boys and the daughter (the other son died in car accident in '96). The daughter does payroll, billing, invoicing, etc. as well as the safety stuff. The two boys take turns between dispatch and maintaining the trucks, since we are so small, all of us drivers regularly hang out in the shop and BS with them, so we know what's going on at any one time with any of the trucks that are in the shop and most of those that are on the road. Since my truck is assigned to me, and no one but me drives it, I better #### well know and want to know what's going on with it all the time. I have enough basic knowledge and carry enough basic hand tools to fix many things on the road. Either because I know what to do, or they have/will walk me through it over the phone (cellphone cameras are awsome for things like that).

 

Well my friend, How many Accidents, Incidents have you had in your 15 years of service? Im going on my 39th Year, No Accidents, No Incidents, No tickets, Was not easy, 2 times in my years caught me off guard, almost lost it, but gained control, then lowered my speed on ICE. Have you ever driven an Day Cab Single Axle, very little Freight on it, pulling a 48` Trailer, ON ICE, Freaking death Trap. You have about another 24 years to keep safe and match my record of safe driving with a Manual Trans. Ill probably be dead by the time you reach it. Now if you can accomplish all this driving an Automatic for the next 24 years, Then your Theory of Automatics worked well for you. Good Luck.

 

I've had one at fault accident and 3 not at fault accidents (cleared by law enforcement and insurance), as for incidents, I guess that's subject to interpretation. Few times I've torn up air lines or electrical lines. Last time I did each, I fixed it myself, out of my pocket and told the company later about my mistake, and that's what it was, human error. If that's what your calling an incident, yeah I've had 3 or 4 over the years. No denying, I've had my share of tickets, probably 5 moving violations in the truck and I've lost count the number of overweights.

 

Have an nice night.