Your ideal emissions setup?

Discussion in 'Ask An Owner Operator' started by petefan4000, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. petefan4000

    petefan4000 Light Load Member

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    As most of you know it's illegal to remove or disable emissions control devices. But if you could legally delete some of these things from your engine, which one of these items:
    • EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)
    • DOC (Diesel Oxidation Catalyst)
    • DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter)
    • SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction, a.k.a. the DEF system)
    would you remove? Or if you have already done some deletes, which ones did you remove? Note that I am not saying I would do a delete if I owned a Diesel, but I'm just wondering.

    In my opinion the ideal setup would be aa DOC and an SCR system, no EGR or DPF.
     
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  3. Rubber duck kw

    Rubber duck kw Road Train Member

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    If for the sake of this exercise we pretend deleting is legal why would you leave any of it?
     
  4. kemosabi49

    kemosabi49 Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

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    Treading on thin ice here.
     
  5. LameMule

    LameMule Road Train Member

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    The correct answer is...
    D none of the above.

    Reduce breakdowns and expensive nonsensical repairs by running a mechanical engine that isn't controlled by AI.
     
  6. D.Tibbitt

    D.Tibbitt Road Train Member

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    Well i think if they would just stick to a system instead of constantly changing it and adding more crap , they might be able to make something that lasts longer.... The epa has not done any of the engine manufactorers any favors by constantly changing regulations and mandating new systems on engines... just think only 20 years ago none of this stuff existed... now look at all the crap on the engines now , with the majority of that stuff coming from the last 10 years.
     
  7. petefan4000

    petefan4000 Light Load Member

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    Because I feel it's necessary to strike a balance between reducing emissions and maintaining efficiency, and I hate some of these items more than others. Some deletes I get, some I don't.

    With an EGR system you're dumping exhaust gases back into the intake. As you may know, there's a lot of soot in the exhaust on a Diesel engine that is getting plugged up in your EGR cooler and intake. Not only that, EGR reduces the efficiency of your engine as there's less oxygen in the cylinders and combustion temperatures are also lower.

    Modern DPF systems will have a regeneration system which pours fuel into the exhaust, adds air, and lights the fuel on fire to increase the DPF's temperature and clean it out. Does burning more fuel to save the environment make any sense? I didn't think so. Not only that, the EGR system also reduces your combustion efficiency which means less power, higher fuel consumption, and more soot being produced. And now your DPF plugs faster.

    A DOC is like a catalytic converter on a car, and its job is to cook any unburned hydrocarbons (so unburned and incompletely-burned fuel and oil vapours) into water and CO2, as well as some of the soot (carbon) into CO2. It also helps reduce NOx slightly.

    The SCR system injects urea into the exhaust, which decomposes into ammonia at high temperatures. Urea and ammonia react with NO, NO2, and other nitrogen oxides to form nitrogen and water.

    Lastly, Diesel engines are much more efficient when they run lean than when they run rich. The excess of air allows you to achieve a very thorough burn, so you produce a lot less soot (black smoke). This does increase NOx, though (since you have lots of nitrogen, lots of excess oxygen, and lots of heat), but the SCR takes care of that without interfering with the combustion process.

    In my opinion, EGR really should have been only a temporary fix until SCR systems took over.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
  8. petefan4000

    petefan4000 Light Load Member

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    ...and is capable of running without any electrical input.
     
    God prefers Diesels Thanks this.
  9. AModelCat

    AModelCat Road Train Member

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    EGR would be the one I'd like to see gone. Put all the emission stuff in the exhaust and stop choking the engine up with burnt exhaust gas.

    FWIW, manufacturers have already started trending away from EGR as the SCR system is pretty much capable of handling all the NOx reduction on its own.
     
  10. LameMule

    LameMule Road Train Member

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    The first emission equipped truck I drove was a 08 550hp cat in a kenworth hauling transfer loads of road base and asphalt. On the highway flat and level the truck ran fairly well...
    But I ran 2 lane mountain roads and backroads on gravel mostly. That truck was needing a regen two to three times per day at 30min each and it couldn't keep up with a 425hp mechanical cat. Add on top of that it spent more time on the side of the road or in the shop than all other trucks in that company combined and I swore off ever owning or even driving another electronic emissions controlled pile ever again.

    In the real world, that 550hp cat could pull in the winding mountains about like a ntc400 that hadn't been turned up.
     
  11. petefan4000

    petefan4000 Light Load Member

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    DPF's also present another problem as it affects what fuels you can run on. A big advantage of Diesel engines is that they'll run on pretty much anything, and a lot of guys run waste cooking oil and waste motor oil in their Diesel (pickup) trucks. If I owned a semi I would also be interested in running my waste fluids (not coolant, obviously) in the fuel tank. Why is this a problem in a Regen engine? Because in a Regen engine, the same fuel that the engine runs off of is used to provide heat for cleaning out the DPF. I'm not sure about this, but my first impression is that waste motor oil (since it's loaded with black carbon) would burn very inefficiently in the exhaust stream and would take a much longer time to do a regen since it would produce soot as it burned.

    Going off on a tangent here, but I personally feel like the whole fossil fuel phase-out is almost completely hype at this point. Our oil and coal reserves are still more than plentiful enough, and our efforts should not be on phasing them out at this point, but instead they should be focused on emissions control (specifically aftertreatment). The reason I'm saying this is because I'm very interested in biofuels and the use of pyrolysis to turn waste (garbage, sewage, sewage sludge, yard waste, and all kinds of things) into oil, which can then be refined into biogasoline and biodiesel. But that's for another time.

    By taking out the DPF you don't have to worry as much.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
    God prefers Diesels and D.Tibbitt Thank this.
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