Clock status question. Staging are to dock if 14 is expired?

No. I was talking about the know it all Moose was replying to.

 

Thank you @Ridgeline you comment echos several I have received since yesterday.

I asked a retired Virginia DOT cop about this issue late last night in an email. He also said the FMCSA is not vague about this either. What he told me was simply the FMCSA does not consider a truck not on a public highway a CMV for the purposes of HOS. Actually, @Wasted Thyme was close but did not dig deep enough! This guy pointed out a nugget found in 390.5 and 390.5T. I will post the actual language.

Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle—
(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or
(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or
(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.


Now I expect some will say well moose what if you are hauling hazmat? Well in that case you also follow the rules set out in part 397.
When you now go back and look at 395.2 and take the definition of a CMV from 390.5 into account it makes perfect sense.

Driving time means all time spent at the driving controls of a commercial motor vehicle in operation.

The major point being you can stay on duty off the roads as long as you want as long as you follow what the rule states in 395.3. before getting on a public road.
(2) 14-hour period. A driver may not drive after a period of 14 consecutive hours after coming on-duty following 10 consecutive hours off-duty.


Again @Ridgeline thank you!

 

It's F'n retarded how all this has to be untangled.

 

Regardless of the intent of that question, it was a good question. There are so many carriers that are Micky Mouse when it comes to HOS. I have spoken to many drivers that yank reefers who get so frustrated because they are so restrictive in these situations. This was why my answer was what it was.

 

I will say this. I also think @brian991219 will agree. These state DOT cops undergo a lot of continued training and most get it through the CVSA. I learned a long time ago to trust what they say when asked such a question. I tell young drivers all the time to stop being scared of DOT cops and ask them questions OUTSIDE of when they are actually working as enforcement officers. These people are such a rich source of information that it is almost criminal that drivers ignore them when it comes to getting correct factual information.

Many years ago I had a Kansas DOT cop actually close up the scale, put on his coveralls, and got under my trailer and showed me how to inspect brakes.

 

I just got another email reply from this same retired DOT officer! He wanted to make sure I understood the difference between "driving time" and "on duty" as it relates to part 395. Let's review what 395 says is on duty!


On-duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:
(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;
(2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;
(3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time;
(4) All time in or on a commercial motor vehicle, other than:
(i) Time spent resting in or on a parked vehicle, except as otherwise provided in §397.5 of this subchapter;
(ii) Time spent resting in a sleeper berth; or
(iii) Up to 3 hours riding in the passenger seat of a property-carrying vehicle moving on the highway immediately before or after a period of at least 7 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth;
(5) All time loading or unloading a commercial motor vehicle, supervising, or assisting in the loading or unloading, attending a commercial motor vehicle being loaded or unloaded, remaining in readiness to operate the commercial motor vehicle, or in giving or receiving receipts for shipments loaded or unloaded;
(6) All time repairing, obtaining assistance, or remaining in attendance upon a disabled commercial motor vehicle;
(7) All time spent providing a breath sample or urine specimen, including travel time to and from the collection site, to comply with the random, reasonable suspicion, post-crash, or follow-up testing required by part 382 of this subchapter when directed by a motor carrier;
(8) Performing any other work in the capacity, employ, or service of, a motor carrier; and
(9) Performing any compensated work for a person who is not a motor carrier.


This text has been posted many times over the years. It is important though to remember what 390.5 says in regard to the HOS. I have noticed there is NO definition of a CMV anywhere in part 395. This means you have to look deeper. The definition of a CMV can differ based on the subject. When it comes to the CDL you must take parts 383 and 397 into account. Part 397.2 directs back to 390. 383 ONLY defines what a CMV is as it relates to the CDL.

When you get to the HOS rules a CMV is defined BY 390.5!

One final point hopefully will end this. Part 395 is direct when it comes to the HOS rules EVEN when off the roads. On duty means what it means above. However, you are perfectly free to operate a truck when in a terminal or dock. You just have to be in 100% compliance to legally place that vehicle on the road afterward. This now goes back to the FMCSA position on PC. <<< this gives me a headache that morphine wont touch!

 

The problem with using the term "safe haven" is it is a term used with hazmat. See 397.5 . This can confuse people especially the new drivers. I always just called it a secure place to park. If you continue to use that term in these boards just try to be careful to fully explain what you mean.

 

It actually is a legal term, and can’t be used for other things outside of hazmat transportation.

 

Several things you can do...
1. Attempt to move in granny gear without stepping on the throttle... Eld may not pick up movement.
2nd... Put yourself on duty yard movement and add a note as to why in your eld.
3rd... Call your dispatcher BEFORE time is expired and ask what you should do.
4th... Log completely out drive from staging point to dock. Log back in, make a note that you need to drive to closest safe haven.
5th... Learn to plan better.
Talk with dispatch regarding the amount of time you have left for the day.
*** you will need to drive to the absolute closest safe haven, even if it is in the wrong direction.
Again, make sure you add a note in your eld. Contact your dispatcher again and give them a heads up.
Worst case senero... Failing to do this, and getting into an accident or incident (especially with a fatality) could result in jail time.
The first thing a prosecuter / lawyer will do is have your logs checked.