Broke down after 2.5 hrs on, logged off duty, Co wants me to run.

I like the way you think pilgrim! Personally, it's RARE I get out of bed before 5:30 am and my happy arse is home by 6:00 pm at the LATEST, usually 4:30-5:00. I make DA*& good money and I ain't running my gonads off to do it. Mon - Fri, that's it. That's living the FINE LIFE BABY.

Math? Sure man, I can go down that bunny trail. You think you can hold your own with ME when it comes to ciphering? I think not! I got naughts and goesinzas down!

2 goesinza 4 2
3 goesinza 6 3
4 goesina 12 4

naught plus naught is double naught!

 

I don't know what part of this you're not understanding...You're quoting the regs but then ignoring them in your argument?!

The simple fact that the driver went "off-duty" disqualifies him from the 7/8-hr consecutive sleeper berth requirement. He would only qualify for either 2 or 3 hours out of that 7 while brokedown IF he spent that time in his sleeper. There can be ZERO instances of "off-duty" during the 7/8-hr part of the sleeper berth to qualify as a split sleeper. The 2/3-hr part of the split sleeper can be a combination of sleeper/off-duty but not the longer portion- that part of the rules hasn't changed.

Frequently Asked Questions Relating to 2020 Changes to Hours of Service Regulations

Question 2

Q: What rest periods qualify for the split sleeper berth provision?

A: Truck drivers using the split sleeper berth provision under the hours-of- service (HOS) rule may take a period of at least 7-consecutive hours in the sleeper berth and a period of at least 2-consecutive hours off-duty, provided that, when the two periods are paired, they total at least 10 hours.

Regulatory Topic: Hours of Service
Published Date: Thursday, November 19, 2020

So, pray tell- when did this driver spend 7 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth?

He didn't do it while brokedown- he was in the truck stop by his own admission.

I've been through this before with DOT. I was dinged with a warning on OOS because I went off-duty the last 10 minutes of my 7-hr sleeper berth.

Yes, the driver can claim 3 of the hours brokedown as the first part of the split sleeper berth IF he was in the sleeper that long. His new 14/11-hr clocks will start again from 2pm, if we're being generous and counting the 1st qualifying split sleeper berth from 11am-2pm [which I'm sure it was not].

Then he can drive until 10:30pm that night and he has until 4am to finish out the 8.5 hrs remaining drive time.

In that case, the driver is setting himself up for an 18+ hr day, which is my main point in all this. No one in their right mind would volunteer for an 18-hr day where they're only making money during 10.5 maximum of those hours and then losing sleep the following night.

The tangent in all this, which is really frustrating because you keep quoting the regulation and then disregarding it in your interpretation, is that the driver was hanging out at the truck stop instead of getting rest in his sleeper during the 7-hr breakdown.

Even though he will be on paper logs the rest of the day and can finagle the logs to say he was in the sleeper the whole time he was brokedown- TECHNICALLY he was NOT and therefore does NOT qualify for the 7 hr split sleeper berth exception.

This is also a great reason for why taking the shorter sleeper berth split first is not a good idea, especially for a breakdown. Great for the company; bad for the driver.

 

Read again what is being said. Accidental trucker and you both are correct. What you are having trouble with is you are only seeing one 7 hour period. There are two 7 hour periods.
1. 7 hours off duty. This satisfies the 'at least 2 hour" portion and pauses the clock.
2. 7 hours in the sleeper. After pausing the clock, this is needed to make the first part valid.

 

Yes, I agree with the above, only the second "7 hours in the sleeper" did not happen...yet...

I keep thinking that Accidental Trucker is referring to the breakdown hours as the qualifying longer 7/8-hr split sleeper berth.

My bad if he wasn't.

I've been pointing out since the beginning that only part of the breakdown "off-duty" hours count not all of them.
I've been pointing out that the driver needs to take the longer portion of the split sleeper berth later on in order to keep driving past 6:30pm- the end of his original 14-hr clock.

Here's my point:

Now that we are all saying he will take the longer portion of his split sleeper berth later that night- I'm also saying that is a waste of 4 hours during the day and unnecessarily extending his day to 18+ hours.

The driver should just stop at 6 or 6:30pm when his original 14-hr clock ends and take a 10-hr break to fully reset his 14/11-hr clocks.

Clearly, that's not how every other driver would play it out. But it seems only fair that an employee would be compensated for a breakdown and the loss of part of a day's driving without having to lose sleep or rest.

Every other job that I've worked at outside of trucking didn't tell me where to be, provide the tools, and then say when the tools brokedown or the work site experienced a delay: "Sorry, but we're not paying you until work is back up again. Just hang out for several hours and we'll let you know if you're needed further".

Only in trucking does a company send an employee out of town, let them get stranded in a peelot [good-case scenario instead of on the side of a road], take their sweet time getting their equipment repaired/towed/replaced, and not compensate the employee at all except to say: "IF we get this equipment operational again several hours later, not only will we not pay you anything for your time but also expect you to adjust your rest schedule by that amount of time brokendown so that we can keep our on-time record clean."

Pure garbage that many of us are used to...

 

That never happens, until it does... Once it happens only then is it a valid split. 7 hours, or two matters not in that regard. The clock is paused if you intend to do a split, or even if you don't and decide later you want to....
Saying it doesn't count until the 7 hours is done, while technically true, ignores how it has to work in real life.

 

Finally someone explained it where I can understand it. However, I did think that the non-sleeper berth break time was the 2nd derivative of the sleeper berth break, quantified with the product of e (natural log) and hours remaining on your 70! I guess I was wrong!

Actually I majored in Physics and minored in Math. Unfortunately, didn't get to finish my degree, but considering going back for a Math degree. Something that can be done in my truck. Physics has too many labs and van't usually be accomplished remotely.

 

Seems silly to assume that when a person is talking about a 7-hr breakdown in a discussion and also mentioning the 7-hr split sleeper berth exception, that they aren't referring to the same thing.

If Accidental Trucker was referring to a "future and non-existent" 7-hr split sleeper berth while saying that I was "INCORRECT" in denying the validity of a 7-hr breakdown during which the driver was "off-duty" as a 7-hr split sleeper berth, then the first part was my misunderstanding and the second part was his.

I've accepted my part in the misunderstanding and I've always emphasized the "technically" part of my argument.

I'm guessing the OP did not take the 7-hr split sleeper berth later on in this particular case.

IF he did do it, it either was incorrectly logged during the 7am-2pm breakdown on the paper logs OR it wasn't his personal choice if he did it later on and correctly logged it.

"Real life"? In "real life" on paper logs, 95% of drivers who run hard would have logged the breakdown as the first part of the 7-hr split sleeper berth with the whole block of time logged as "sleeper" even if we were in and out of the truck stop, under the hood, on the phone with a mechanic/dispatch troubleshooting, etc.

 

BTW, I do know that I really like the change to,the sleeper berth rules. If I sit off duty for at least 2 hours and check that I want to use the sleeper berth split, it pauses the 14 hour clock which makes it ALOT easier to wrangle with appointment times.
Of note: If you use the non-sleeper berth portion of a split, you have to use a sleeper berth portion or you will be in HOS violation, even if you take a full 10 (or more) instead of only a 7 or 8 hour sleeper berth. You must show the sleeper berth portion!
There, it's clear as mud now!!

 

Debating HOS rules with operations critters is one of the most wasteful things a Trucker can do. It's pointless and just leads to hard feelings and (redacted) contests later. It boils down to a simple fact. As a driver, you DO NOT operate a CMV if you are uncomfortable about something whatever that something is. In the case of HOS if you get stopped later it is YOU that gets the logbook ticket NOT operations. I know of no safety critter that will accept an excuse that operations made me do it. In this day and age of all the tracking plus CSA-2010 a driver is actually kind of stupid driving when they know full dang well they are violating part 395! If you are being pressured to operate by some (redacted) back in operations contact safety BEFORE you do something stupid. Trust me on this, yank a stupid and safety is going to have you for dinner! YOU not operations. Save those debates with operations for things that actually are something about operating that don't involve part 395.

Now let me say this. Some entry-level drivers are not as up on part 395 as they should be. This means get a ruling from safety when in doubt!