Buffalo Tractor Trailer Institute Instructer lost his cool today

Discussion in 'Trucking Schools and CDL Training Forum' started by Doylee4693, Sep 16, 2021.

  1. Flat Earth Trucker

    Flat Earth Trucker Road Train Member

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    And scabies. :biggrin_2554:
     
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  3. Mototom

    Mototom Road Train Member

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    You have to train anyway so remember that. If you can stomach it flat bed or tanker should be the go to.
    Companies will want to make you do a second round of training if you had dry van then wanna switch.

    Hell I even had to do a few ride along just to learn how to pull a grain wagon to satisfy the farm.
     
  4. N00bLaLoosh

    N00bLaLoosh Medium Load Member

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    When you moved the cones and did your maneuver was an instructor present on the yard with your group?
     
  5. Lennythedriver

    Lennythedriver Heavy Load Member

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    I went to a trucking school that was touted as “the toughest trucking school to pass in America”. I have nothing to compare it to so I don’t know if that was actually true, but on the first day of class the instructor walked around the room kind of eyeballing everybody in the class and making sure to point out that over 50% of everyone in the room on that first day would be missing by the last day. They had a graduation rate of about 48%. He told us how he would throw his own mother out of the class if she didn’t cut it. Lol
    We started out with 42 students and only 20 of us finished. They took it seriously. But even after going to a school like that, I quickly realized that I knew nothing once I got out there on the road with my trainer. I mean don’t get me wrong, I knew enough to drive the truck around and be aware enough not to smash into stuff but all the daily inns and outs? There’s only one way you learned that and that is by being out there doing it.
     
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  6. L.A.toTX

    L.A.toTX Light Load Member

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    The OP has some legitimate gripes, but there are some key points that indicate this being a student who thinks he is much better than he is. His post points out that he is already a pro at backing and that he can get it in the box no matter what. My question:
    If a student is already that #### good, why does he need the more than 4 maneuvers in a day to get through the test?
    I struggled through backing the first week-and-a-half that we were on the practice pad. We usually got 3 or 4 chances each in the truck each day. I successfully passed the CDL maneuvers, pre-trip, and drive test on the first try. My point here is that if someone is doing that well at the maneuvers, then there shouldn't be any concern at all for getting enough time in the truck. There are always two sides to a story, and I would be really curious to hear the instructor side to this story.
     
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  7. L.A.toTX

    L.A.toTX Light Load Member

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    I think you should worry less about small things like the cones being 2 ft closer and other students taking more time in the truck. If you approach the trucking industry with this level of disdain for small things, you may not last too long. There will be lots of things that rub you the wrong way. The best that you can do is worry about the things that you are able to control. Otherwise, trucking could quite possibly drive you crazy (pun intended).
     
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  8. L.A.toTX

    L.A.toTX Light Load Member

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    That's not true because the points of reference used for getting the truck and trailer into position change when the positions of the cones change. It's simple geometry.
     
  9. REO6205

    REO6205 Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

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    Oh boy. @gentleroger , be kind. He's a student, still looking for his first job.
     
  10. gentleroger

    gentleroger Road Train Member

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    Not really, but you have brought up an interesting point.

    When 'we' (the industry) teach new drivers to back we give them certain reference points - "Go three feet past the cone, turn the tractor out to 9 o'clock, once it gets to 9, turn back to 12 o'clock and stop.. Center your steers, reverse 4 feet then start bringing your steers to the left to get the tractor back in front of the trailer". It works, but only as a way to introduce the basic mechanics of backing. The problem is that new guys internalize "if I do x,y,z then I go in the spot" and think that's how backing works. Every back will be different, even if just in appearance. Tandem position, weight distribution, ground slope and a dozen different variables change how the trailer responds. One of our customers recently resealed their asphalt. For the next two weeks backing there was a circus. The extra rolling resistance from the sealer dramatically changed what the trailer did. If you understand the mechanics of backing then you can put it into any hole that's at least 9 feet wide.

    The CDL test doesn't care if you are straight and centered in the spot. It cares if you get into the spot without crossing any of the lines. If you can get into a 10 foot wide spot, then you can get into a 12 foot wide spot with the same steering, you just won't be centered.

    I'm always gentle - it's in my name.

    That is unless you serve me a passion fruit infused stout. At that point I cannot be held accountable for my actions.
     
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  11. L.A.toTX

    L.A.toTX Light Load Member

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    What you are saying makes no sense. A 10 ft box requires less turning of the wheel. A newer student who is just trying to get the truck snd trailer in there won't know this.
    We were taught reference points not just on the cones but also on the truck itself, which change for a 10 ft space compared to 12 ft. So, students being taught to get it in the space measured 10 ft are naturally going to struggle once the space is 12 ft. Do you know why your theory of teach smaller to make the larger one in the test easier doesn't actually merit practical benefit? Because the test is only designed to see if a person can navigate the truck around cones. Now, if you are talking about a real job scenario where there is a full parking lot versus an empty parking lot, then that is a different matter. Changing the width of cones only makes the whole thing confusing for students who now have to adjust to something they haven't been doing the whole time. I want you to try doing a parallel backing maneuver into a 10 ft box and then into a 12 ft box, and I want you to use the same degree of wheel turn for both maneuvers and tell me how that works out for you. This is exactly what most students are going to do because they are hopefully following established habits versus knowing what they are seeing (not enough experience to know and trust what they are seeing).
    Your major flaw in your thinking is that you are applying years of trucking knowledge and experience to know what you are seeing with that trailer as you back and can adjust as need be. So, for you, of course a 12 ft box is a breeze compared to a 10 ft box because you are not relying on the same reference points as the rookie driver who is still worried about, "did I turn the wheel far enough or too far?" You are at the point of turning the wheel as you back to get the truck and trailer in the box. That student is still at the point of come to a complete stop, "ok, so I turn the wheel right, no... it's left here." The larger box doesn't make it easier after learning to back into a smaller space because now with the degree the wheel needs to be turned having changed, the student ends up way off and totally confused how to fix it. If you don't believe me, then why did the OP point out that students who had been getting it in the 10 ft space struggled with the 12 ft space? Did they suddenly become dumber? No, points of reference taught changed and they didn't know how to adjust. What you are actually talking about teaching is understanding the pivot point of the rear of the trailer. CDL schools are too short to get into the nuances of the trailer's rear pivot point, how it drifts and the various ways it can be affected. No, that's something to learn with much more time available. In a perfect world, that would be taught at a CDL school, but it's not because things just are not set up that way. You are pretty knowledgeable, obviously, but you are oversimplifying the differences in learning to back into a 10 ft box versus a 12 ft box.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
    Reason for edit: Edited for grammar, then added additional thoughts.
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