CONVERT FROM ELECTRIC TO HYDRAULIC DRUM BRAKES ON 7K AXLES?

Discussion in 'Car Hauler and Auto Carrier Trucking Forum' started by ast26909, Dec 30, 2018.

  1. ast26909

    ast26909 Medium Load Member

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    Anyone has any experience on the difference of braking performance between electric magnet brakes and hydraulic drum brakes on the 7k or 8k axles with 12"x2" brake shoes? I have a Mini5 with electric magnet brakes now and I'm thinking when the brakes are worn out I will convert to hydraulic drum brakes. I don't have a lot of confidence in the magnet brakes during panic stops when heavy (the brakes don't lock the wheel up), when light load (2 cars) or empty the brakes lock the wheels up so I know the brakes are working property and to their best ability also I've made sure they are properly adjusted and all 6 brakes are working.

    So if anyone has done this can the hydraulic drum brakes lock the wheels up when heavy fully loaded?
     
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  3. Pedigreed Bulldog

    Pedigreed Bulldog Road Train Member

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    Your brake controller ought to have an adjustment on it to back them off when you're empty (so they don't lock up) and turn them up when you're loaded (so they help you stop). You really don't want the wheels locking up at ANY time, so it's best to adjust the controller to make them work without locking up.
     
  4. ast26909

    ast26909 Medium Load Member

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    I know how to work the brake controller, I dial it down to 80% for empty or light load. The problem is there is not enough braking at full load even with the controller set at 100%. The question here is will converting to hydraulic drum brakes get a MAJOR improvement in braking performance at full load?
     
  5. Pedigreed Bulldog

    Pedigreed Bulldog Road Train Member

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    Apparently not if it's locking up.

    Electric brakes have no idea as to how hard you're applying the brakes. The most common type works off a time delay. Step on the brakes, and over the course of a few seconds the brakes gradually apply to the preset value. Doesn't matter if you're standing on the pedal or just barely applying enough pressure to trip the brake lights, the trailer brakes function the same. The other type of controller is inertia-based, applying more brake pressure as g-forces increase. The problem here is you have to start braking for there to be any force to trigger the trailer brakes.

    The only variable-pressure controllers I've ever seen for electric brakes are the ones that require the tow vehicle to have air brakes. They tap into the air system and regulate the electric signal sent to the brakes based upon the air pressure applied to the tow vehicle's service brakes.

    As for hydraulic brakes on the trailer, the ONLY way you're going to do that is with electric/hydraulic brakes. The electric brake controller sends a signal to a solenoid, which pushes a piston to create hydraulic pressure. To "convert" to that is going to be more work than it's worth, and you'd be better off trading your trailer in for one set up like that from the factory. Not only that, but the brake controller you have may not even be compatible with them.

    Your best bet is to learn a little more about how your electric brake controller is designed to work and figure out where to set your brake controller to minimize wheel lockup (hint: 80% isn't right for an empty/lightly loaded trailer), and when you're loaded watch what is going on far enough ahead of you to avoid "panic stops".
     
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  6. ast26909

    ast26909 Medium Load Member

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    There are some technical inaccuracies in your reply, I thank you but I'm not interested in 'basic' trailer brakes 101 I'm well versed in this being ASE certified master mechanic for more than 20 years. When you pull on your brake controller applying 100% trailer brakes but your trailer wheels don't lock up then where is the problem? The same truck when pulling another trailer with hydraulic disc brakes will lock up trailer wheels does not matter how much weight on the trailer when trailer brake controller is applied 100%.

    I'm just interested in hearing from people who has done this to see whether the benefit will be worth the effort and expense. I KNOW where the problem is, and what could potentially be the fix.
     
  7. Pedigreed Bulldog

    Pedigreed Bulldog Road Train Member

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    I'd be more concerned if the wheels were locking up. A skidding tire has broken traction, and doesn't offer the same braking power as a rolling wheel with brakes applied. If your brakes are locking up when empty or lightly loaded, you have your controller set wrong. If you don't know that after 20 years of being an ASE certified mechanic, it explains a lot in regards to your post.
     
  8. ast26909

    ast26909 Medium Load Member

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    The job of brake is to stop the wheel from turning, if a brake is not able to stop a wheel from turning then it's not doing its job effectively. I give out info on wheel locking up so readers would know the brakes are effective when empty or light load but not effective enough with full load. We are not discussing driving here, we are discussing how well the brakes work. Of course when driving we don't want wheels locking up, and this can be accomplished by ABS (anti lock brake) function or by the driver setting the 'gain' on the brake controller. When the trailer brake controller is set at 100% and with the lever pulled all the way the trailer brakes better stop the wheels from turning, in fact this is how DOT officers test trailer brakes during an inspection if the trailer moves forward with the truck in drive then you are out of service. The driver can always reduce the brake controller 'gain' but he can't increase the 'gain' forever.
     
  9. Pedigreed Bulldog

    Pedigreed Bulldog Road Train Member

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    The brakes don't have to lock up under a load in order to sufficiently hold the vehicle during a tug test for the DOT. The DOT won't ask you to drag the trailer with the wheels locked up, either. To have the brakes set to lock up while braking makes the brakes unsafe to use in nearly every situation, as you'll never be able to properly apply the vehicle's brakes without the trailer tires locking up increasing the risk of a jackknife.

    When I've got the gooseneck horse trailer hooked up and it's empty, I turn the brake controller down to about 20% and I can still feel it slowing me down with light brake pressure on the pedal. If I've got 4 horses inside, I'll turn it up to 70% and it provides excellent braking with no tire lockup. If your trailer brakes aren't doing their job, it isn't because they are 100% electric vs electric/hydraulic. As an ASE certified master mechanic, though, you should know that and be able to fix it. Apparently you can't, though, which brings into question the validity of your claim.
     
  10. haycarter

    haycarter Road Train Member

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    NO.

    The Only way you'll solve your Problem is to not overload It.
    Or get a real truck & Trailer with Real Brakes & stop sending a boy to do a mans Job....
     
    AModelCat and StrokerTSi Thank this.
  11. ast26909

    ast26909 Medium Load Member

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    You don't know what you're talking about so I'm not gonna waste my time. But if you want to educate yourself read the tread below:

    Trying to make a silk purse out of my max 6
     
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