How to tell when the cummins holset vgt turbo is failing?

and by the way.

even if i did have 3g to buy a cummins REMAN. i don't have 4 weeks to wait for the backordered part to come in. i need the truck on the road TODAY. not next month.

 

I apologize if i did anything wrong i just wanted to share the place where we've bought our isx turbos in the past and hopefully help someone get a better price than getting shafted with cummins. The turbos we've bought were rebuilt by Cummins and it is to my understanding that there is special VGT training given to the person rebuilding. I didn't get a chance to open it up and take a look at the insides.

Mr haney you have helped me plenty of times and don't think i have forgotten about you we are recovering from some financial troubles,all my family is doing short light trips but as soon as everything starts to even out ill be sending you my ecms so you can fix them up and the gift card that i promised you. You are someone compassionate who loves what he does and i take my hat off for you

 

i've seen the insides. and i don't see anything special.

from what i'm learning. is that they are just plain junk. i'm really not seeing any difference between a cummins rebuilt and a local shop rebuild.

it's basically just a poor design that should have never been thought up.

i think they'd have a better chance of holding up. if a new housing could be bought also. rather then reusing the hold housing when rebuilding the things.

they're just plain junk. and i think everyone knows it by now.

my hainey says expensive. but i'd like to know HOW expensive. i think a borg warner is like $900 bucks. throw in the manifold and ecm reflash. is it more or less then paying the 3G asking price from cummins?

a lot of us would like to know the alternatives over fixing the stock over and over.

 

Oh I took this comment the wrong way from this thread


http://www.thetruckersreport.com/tr...698-replacement-turbo-for-the-isx-holset.html

First off I have no idea of who you are or what you think is being sarcastic or funny. So it is an insult in my eyes to call me an Ahole, because I gave a limited answer to your question.

You maybe a mechanic, but you evidently don't understand the tolerance issues with a Holset variable geometry turbocharger concerning the moveable portions of the vanes inside of the exhaust housing. I have talked with a Holse engineer about these turbos and after speaking with him, I wouldn't replace one of these turbos with anything but another Holset turbo. The reason for this is the tolerance on the variable vanes inside the exhaust housing is 0.001" to 0.002" This is why the have such a high failure rate. They are immersed in soot at high temperatures, do you think this will cause a wear issue at the pivot point of the vanes? Do you think the soot maybe able to jam the pivot point? Do you think the soot maybe abrasive and wear the pivot point and change the tolerances? Can you guarantee that an aftermarket re-builder is going to make sure that the internal vanes in the exhaust housing are within spec?

Evidently you found out the hard way, but still think you bought a quality rebuilt turbocharger for less.

 

for starters, the turbo hadn't been pulled when i started that thread.

and #2. NOWHERE did i call you an Ahole. other then in this thread and that was purely out of humor from YOUR comment.

being a retired mechanic. it would't be the first time i've seen defective parts.

BUT, my turbo didn't fail. what FAILED. was that plate inside the housing. and it wasn't really a failure. but could have been.

the turbo was checked out. by the shop that pulled it. and the shop that rebuilt it. all specs are good.

from what i've seen and talked. in order to be a really good working turbo. the housing should also be replaced. but apparently you can't buy the housing.

the man owns his shop. all he does is rebuilds turbos. that's all he's ever done. i have faith in the guy that his work is every bit as good as cummins.

it still boils down to this. order a REMAN from cummins. wait 4 weeks. and spend 3G. OR spend $1500 and have it done next day. either way. it's apparently not going to last. unless i can find a NEW housing to accomodate that plate. untill then. i've ordered extra plates so that our own shop can replace the thing in 10 minutes and i can continue running.

the only ones i've insulted on here. are the rookies that think they are smarter then the veterans. NOT ONCE DID I EVER KNOCK YOU DOWN.


and put yourself in my shoes. i'm struggling to keep this truck on the road right now. becuase of the same mechanical issues over and over that no one around here can seem to fix. or even WANTS TO FIX becuase they all hate the isx motor. that's a LOT of money thrown down the drain. money isn't flowing out my A at the moment or i'd throw the dang holset away and do the replacement mod.

i'm doing what i can to SURVIVE.

i come to this sight for advice, NOT INSULTS.

 

Sounds like you were forced into retirement and looks its going to happen again

 

I insulted you?

You have faith in your turbo guy. It isn't hard to rebuild a standard turbo, it's actually fairly easy to do with the proper measuring equipment to check the shaft for straightness and diameter. The rest is about balancing, but most wheel and shaft assemblies are close enough from the factory to run as it is out of the box.

As you've found out Cummins is limiting what parts are available in the aftermarket to work on these turbos. Without the part you need, you can't rebuild it properly. My perception of your original question in this thread was that you wanted to do the conversion to a standard turbo design to eliminate the Variable Geometry Turbo as this would rid you of the inherent failures associated with it. You wanted someone to tell you how to do it cheaply using your own sources to purchase the parts cheaper. Now if I had explained the complete process of how to do this, you would have said it was too expensive. I felt that this would be your response, so my answer was to exchange the turbo under a warranty policy that the re-builder should have given you. Again you didn't bother to say you couldn't get it rebuilt properly in the first place, because you could purchase the plate for inside the exhaust housing, but not the worn housing where the plate resides, so I'm sure your re-builder didn't give you a warranty. Oh did I mention the 0.001" to 0.002" tolerances.........that is a small amount. You never stated that you didn't purchase a turbo from Cummins/Holset in the first of your posts.

How am I supposed to know this and react to your question in the manner that your expecting from anyone without the complete story in the first place?

My problem was that I assumed that you wouldn't spend the money to fix the problem correctly in first place. I also assumed that you wouldn't want to spend an additional $10K to fix it with a conversion to a standard designed turbo. This is what I assumed from the first time I entered this thread and read your posts of your original question. So my advise was for you to return the failed rebuilt turbo under warranty for the cheapest alternative to solve your problem. For this piece of advise your next comment was to post a response with a sentence in it calling me an Ahole. How was I supposed to take this as a joke?

I spend countless hours giving advise with very little in return to my efforts. Lately I spend too much time with people trying to get as much information from me to use it to against me. Mr. Haney is ready to throw his phone away, because I can't feed my family any better than you can with a broke down truck by answering questions. I have to sell something or it's not worth my effort to continue doing the things I do for people. You happened to catch me in a bad mood, why? Because I had been dealing with someone else that I'd spent hours with on the phone and in PMs that used the info I gave them to have a buddy tune his ECM. He wasn't happy with the results and wanted to know exactly which file # I would have used if I had tuned the ECM. He felt if he could buy a turbo that I would give him the #. I sell the turbos for less money than PDI, PP, Bully Dog, Michigan Turbo, Antrim Diesel Services, so how much profit did he think was in it for me? I make money on the tunes. Yet he took that away from me, but still wanted my knowledge. My thoughts when I looked at your first question is why bother with taking the time to explain it......he's going to lose $4K on the VGTurbo he's bought. I'm already aggravated, because I just got hammered 5 minutes earlier by somebody going around me with my own info. He not going to spend an additional $10K to convert. He needs to warranty it for the cheapest solution. That was my answer to your question

For this I'm an Ahole. Whether you said it in jest or not doesn't matter. It's the way I perceived it that matters. I don't know you. I don't know your sense of humor. In polite circumstances using proper etiquette you would have never said this whether it was in humor or not.

Mr. Haney is ready for retirement

 

that would make my day. i've got 25 years.

 

the guy gave a 1 year warranty. just like cummins.

he fixed it for free.

swears it won't be a problem anymore. so we'll see.

also says there a modified plate coming out. supposed to make the turbo better then oem. gonna call me if i'm interested in installation of the modified part. when it's released. in two weeks.

so if the turbo can be rebuilt to better then oem specs. i'll gladly spend $1500 vs. $3000 and not get the same customer satisfaction.


and as for cheap. your probably right about that. due to the fact that we haul fuel to los angeles. which means installing a dpf. before long. to which i have no desire to spend that kind of money on a truck that already has lousy mileage. i don't need dpf making it worse.


now factor in a overhaul in the future. and a transmission. and possibly rear ends.

i just don't see the economics of dumping money into a truck that i don't see ever getting 6 mpg. with a lousy quality isx motor. and turbo.

i'd rather take that money and buy a newer truck with 1/3 the miles and gets at least 7 mpg. and has the emissions defects worked out.

for now. i just want the truck fixed and running. and the only problem i'm having with THAT idea. is finding someone who WANTS to and can ACTUALLY fix the thing. other then the kenworth stealer

 

Dont retire just yet got alot of bussiness coming your way, hopefully in the near future.