Keeping your ducks in a row, for your family.

Discussion in 'Ask An Owner Operator' started by blairandgretchen, Dec 27, 2023.

  1. blairandgretchen

    blairandgretchen Road Train Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
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    My neighbor across the road - Tom. He's 84. His wife passed away suddenly at 82 last month. I was a pallbearer, and as his 2 children are either out of state, or out of 'present', I have been helping him with many tasks.

    The first task that came along, was that Tom wanted to sell his late wife's' car - $3k or so. Not because he needed the $$, I could tell it bothered him just looking at it.

    So I helped him with that. A potential buyer asked -

    "Is it a clean title" ??

    I told him - "Errr, wait - no liens, but, hey - let me check"

    So, the vehicle is in both their names, and requires a death certificate attached to transfer title. We got that done, and moved on. Missouri is pretty quick (30 days).

    There is a difference, (in some states ) as to the "AND/OR" wording, on titles.

    We're in the state of Missouri, for reference, and this must be different depending on your state. It got me thinking. So, I went to the safety deposit box in town, where I had stashed all , I mean ALL of our property titles a few years back. Because it's just easier.

    I noticed with Toms 'filing system', older folks tend to stuff endless paperwork in files related to each piece of property or vehicle. Sometimes just an old envelope.

    The question I posed myself - "If I died tomorrow , suddenly - what mess is there to clean up?"

    So - I retrieved all vehicle and property titles, and set about ensuring all had TOD on them. In Missouri, that means "Transferrable on Death". That keeps vehicles out of the state probate process, which drags on, and they take a cut.

    Next was the liens on titles. So, most vehicles we own once had bank liens on them.

    You HAVE TO HAVE THE RELEASE OF LIEN PAPERWORK ATTACHED, in order to sell or dispose of vehicles. And, in cases of small town banks disappearing, or consolidating - that can be a difficult process.

    Luckily my wife had 90% of the 'lien release' paperwork in files, so I consolidated everything into one nice easy little packet - everything attached as needed, and a love letter, and put it back in the safety deposit box.

    We don't have a will in place - so that's the next step. The DMV informed me that regardless of a will, THE TITLE paperwork must be in order, else the property enters the 'system'.

    As we are involved in an industry that has a risk for sudden death at any time - if you have some spare time on your hands, it's not a bad idea to get the broom and sweep out, and tidy things that could save loved ones headaches, should the inevitable occur sooner.

    In our case, it's about $230k of equipment/vehicles/trailers etc, that would be a complete headache to a widow - if the situation arose.

    Happy New Year.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2023
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  3. gentleroger

    gentleroger Road Train Member

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    Proper estate planning is a must. It made both my parents deaths a lot easier. We didn't have to guess about funeral details, we just looked in the binder. I knew where all the bank accounts were, and was a signatory on them so they were easy to close without the death certificates. There are so many details that need to be addressed (or are just easier to deal with) in the moment and the longer you wait to deal with them, the harder they are. But in that moment, you don't want to deal with any of it.

    It took years of planning and work - going through all the accumulated paperwork of 3 decades to get rid of the out dated and corral the pertinent ones. Talking about the contents of boxes and figuring out which things look like junk but are actually very valuable - like my grandmother's curios . I thought they were just glass knickknacks, turns out they were Waterford crystal that her mother brought with her from Ireland.

    Having these conversations SUUUUCCCK! But they need to happen and reduces the trauma (and drama) of death.
     
  4. Big Road Skateboard

    Big Road Skateboard Road Train Member

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    Don't forget those living wills. I've seen folks (especially young folks) be saddled with guilt because they had to make decisions on someone elses behalf.

    We are all selfish when it comes to our loved ones, and it's normal, but nobody but yourself should make end of life decisions. It's not fair to those who care about you, and may not be what you want.
     
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  5. Cat sdp

    Cat sdp . .

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    Orion's Belt
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    My better half passed 7 months ago and
    2 of our cars were in the wife’s name only…… we felt the cars had no value. And weren’t worth worrying about. Except the kids drive them I’ve been dicking with those titles for 7 months…….

    luckily all the real money and property were already in a trust. Which still took 6 months for me the “trustee” to have full access to.
    The truck is in my name and 4 other vehicles so I’m not walking…

    oh and whatever account you have your social security direct deposited into will be locked up because you tell the feds and the feds tell the bank about the death ..instant locked up account……

    we were fairly well prepared and of means and the bs is brutal .
     
  6. Opus

    Opus Road Train Member

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    South GA
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    Hazul and I have just wrapped this up. The important thing to our lawyer was that every deed, title, or whatever stated that the owner was John Doe OR Hazul......not AND.
    And I have no idea who John Doe is, but apparently he owns my stuff.
     
  7. Lyle H

    Lyle H Road Train Member

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    All great information to consider.

    We set up a living trust and put almost all of our investments listed as such. It’s something to check out if you’re so inclined. Probate can drag things out unnecessarily.
    The time to start thinking about things like this, as you said, is now, not later.
     
  8. motocross25

    motocross25 Road Train Member

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    Overland Park, KS
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    Just reading that about gave me a coronary. There is NOTHING worse than dealing with the constant barrage of Mickey Mouse rules of the Missouri DMV. I have ran into that “and/or” rigamarole before. My favorite was couple 10 years back when me and my buddy wanted to switch pickups. He liked mine better, I liked his. Should be simple one would think. Guess again. We had to have a mountain of paperwork filled out, we had to prove that the vehicles Blue Booked similarly because heaven forbid it were to be a $5 difference more either of us had to pay, they had to make sure to get their cut. I’ve never seen anything like it. And we both owned the vehicles outright! I mean it’s mine. If I want to trade it in for a carton of Marlboros and 2 meal tickets to the Dixie Stampede, one would think that would be my right. Who’s gonna tell me otherwise? Apparently the Missouri DMV.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2023
  9. Espressolane

    Espressolane Road Train Member

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    Nov 21, 2009
    Just south of the north 40
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    This is actually a very important point. Having an estate plan, well documented is incredibly valuable. Have had the unfortunate opportunity to experience this first hand with several family members.

    A few things I discovered or was educated about.
    Never use exact numbers for things. Percentage is much better. There are some exceptions.
    Have primary, secondary and even a third for all potential candidates for things, like Executors, Beneficiaries and those that may have a POA’s.
    Have an advanced directive for medical care, file it with any and all medical providers.

    It is worth the cost of working with a professional in this area. They can prevent a lot of problems for the future.
     
  10. Opus

    Opus Road Train Member

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    South GA
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    We decided to leave everything to our one son to distribute as he saw fit. Our family roster, like many others, is a moving target. Our son is a good guy with his own money and we talked it over with him and he knows our wishes.
    Hopefully he won't turn into a Crack head.
     
  11. dunchues

    dunchues Medium Load Member

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    A lot of sound advice here. I do remember a story though about a guy I knew some years ago who owned a small company with his wife and supplied a shop we had at the time. He was getting on, probably in his 70s and hadn't been well, so when the doctors told him he hadn't got long to go, probably weeks, he didn't tell his wife straight away but spent a couple of weeks changing absolutely everything into her name only from the water rate to car ownership to bank accounts, and he got all his life assurances and pensions together in one place and left them for her. To my way of thinking at the time i understood his motivation and thought it made sense. By the time he told his wife what was wrong he only had a week or so to live. I saw her a little while later and she was so furiously angry with him I was stunned, seemed she thought his actions were misplaced and she'd rather have known for all the 3 weeks he turned out to have and he should have done none of this just left it to her after he died. I only knew her for a little time after but she never changed her view, and it affected what she thought of him even after all the decades they'd been together.
    All the advice here to get your house in order before you need to is sound sense.
     
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