Yeah, it doesn't make sense, but it is what is enforced. My brother got written up for violating this rule when he "crossed the magic line" into the bunk and failed to make a duty status change before he fell asleep.
If there's one thing I've learned as a professional driver, LEO's love anal.
Passenger Rule Violation
Discussion in 'Experienced Truckers' Advice' started by expedite_it, Nov 30, 2015.
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Problem is, without the rule, you have to log "on duty" to sit in the passenger seat. It sucks, but its infinitely better than before the rule was instituted.
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So it seems the limitations are that if the truck is *moving* the second seat must be limited to 2 hours off duty in the jump seat beginning of 10 hour break or after 8 hours inthe sleeper. All other time must be spent ON Duty in the jump seat *in a moving truck*.
What about the driver's 30 minute break if it is before second seat's 8 hours in the sleeper? Now the truck isn't *moving* so it would seem the second seat driver could legitimately get out of the truck for Off Duty time or even sit in the jump seat or drivers seat Off Duty in a *parked commercial vehicle*.
Now the rule says the second seat driver cannot drive unless they have 8 hours in the sleeper immediately before or after a 2 hour limited jump seat Off Duty time, but my contention is that the second seat driver could loophole this rule by simply stretching out the 10 hour break by 1 minute on Elog or 15 minutes on paper logs. What we really need to test this is to have an Elog team try this and see if my theory is correct. -
It's "up to two hours" before or after. So you could do an hour off duty, 8 hours sb and another hour off duty.
This is a case of well intentions gone wrong. The idea was to allow team drivers an alternative to being in the bunk the while time and let drivers have more flexibility. What happened is a whole new type.of "violation" was created.
At least on QC HOS it will still show you have hours to drive even with a "passenger rule violation". Unless your safety department is having kittens there's not a whole lot to worry about.Lepton1 Thanks this. -
I don't know about anyone else but after about 3-4 hour bouncing in the sleeper, my kidneys and bladder are ready for a break. Just seems to me that if the driver stops for a break the sleeper driver should be able to as well without penalizing drive time later. Surely the choice to falsify the logs is not the solution the FMCSA would prefer. I don't mind bending and breaking regulations but love to show when an authority has come up with a nonsensical rule or regulation especially if it can be beat by simply taking a 10 hour and 1 minute break for the sleeper driver to run his off duty log any way he wants. -
I hear you and I agree. It's a case of regulators trying to do the right thing and give operators a little flexibility but instead create a semantic nightmare.
For QC HOS the "violation" doesn't even show. I pop off dozens of them with students (not running team) and if Schneider's safety department hasn't freaked on me or any other trainer I doubt it shows as a violation. The only reason the Q freaks out is because of poor programing - it meets the letter or the passenger rule but not in the context of the entire HOS.scottied67 Thanks this. -
It just depends on how much of a rule nazi an inspector is. I had one try to "trip me up" on the 8 / 2 split sleeper. Asked if I really spent the time in the sleeper. I told him, no, I went to the restroom a couple of times. Wanted to write a ticket because it wasn't "uninterrupted time in the sleeper".
I asked him how big HIS prostrate was. That created enough of a fuss that the scale master came along. Told me to flag restroom breaks next time.
I still don't. I'll go in front of a judge any day and ask the copper to argue the law says I can't pee for 8 hrs straight.Lepton1 Thanks this. -
Team Driving - A team driver may log as off duty up to 2 hours in the passenger seat of a moving vehicle immediately before or after an 8-hour period in the sleeper berth.
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They suggest the driver drive for 8 hours, the team driver log 8 hours in the sleeper and at the 8 hour mark the driver takes his 30, and the team driver now can go off duty out of the truck for business and ride in the passenger seat for the remaining time of their 10 hour break.
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https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/sites/fmcsa.dot.gov/files/docs/Drivers Guide to HOS 2015_508.pdf
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