Some numbers for new O/O

Firstly, I'm not angry in the slightest, I was just emphasizing, that's my bad for being unclear.

I was genuinely taking your worst case scenario serious, which is why I put it at $80k. A tow, some other unforeseen problems on top of the 40k I was estimating and it's not super hard to get there. And like you say, if I DON'T spend the $80k, I still have it. That's why I like overestimating cost and why I was so fast to throw it all the way to $80k.

I can't find a volvo/mack cheap enough. I pathologically hate freightliners and one put my buddy out of business.

If I can get to $20k in cash lying around, I could get an old 14 liter DD series 60 DDEC IV ELD exempt Western Star that's in great condition... if I can ever find the owner around...
6 miles per gallon, though. but I do strongly consider the really old trucks. The only reason I'm thinking so hard about the fuel efficient T680s and Volvos and stuff is that one of the companies I was most strongly considering leasing onto requires 5 year 500k mile or less trucks. They didn't want to take a first time owner operator, though, and ultimately I didn't want to maintain a very high cost of truck ownership. I've done the math a ton of times and the very newest trucks, total cost of ownership and operation isn't great.

There are pretty much two nodes of low cost: really old trucks you can get for way cheaper that are so cheap that their worse fuel efficiency doesn't really matter, and then 4-6 year old trucks that are $40-60k, get better fuel mileage, and are still cheaper than the $200k new trucks

Low cost is how the money is made. I genuinely don't understand how Pete 589s and 2020s W900s roll down the highway. When I see trucks like those that just make less sense to me I take a good luck at whatever they're pulling and think about how I can pull it and find out what the rate is.

 

Fair enough, and my appoligizes for that as well. Im so used to guys getting angry when you poke holes in their plan that the tone came off as angry. My bad for assumeing there and ill own it.

As for the hoods. Usually us guys with the oddball rigs have them for a reason. take my lonestar. It has a ton of clearance for offroad. Has the torque and power to get to weird oddball places, is long enough i can bridge most places with my kansas split axle and be stable while dumping and is low enough i can fit into my customers easily even when some are under less then 13' bridges. Usually if you see a hood its because its set up for vocational. Though to be honest the MPG loss aint that bad. I had a 579 with a MX13 and it got 6.8. But was a bear. Slow and underpowered and i lost at least 1 load a week compared to my new rig wbich offset any fuel savings by a lot.

As for trucks. May i recomend taking a look for a used lonestar, HX or LT? I cant do it atm since my internet is somewhere between rock and drunk asmatic snail atm but ill link the olace i got my rig from. They have some decent rigs for a good lrice there and the lonestars and LTs with a cummins will get easily 7mpg if your not 80K+ 100% of the time.

 

I'd love to have that Western Star but the owner is always over the road (it's his backup truck) and I can't finance it, and I'd need to get automatic restriction lifted (super annoying that they do this. I really don't like the idea of downgrading to a CLP just for a lift of a restriction, it's a ridiculous idea to me. I have somebody to teach me, and I've realized the only way I'm gonna learn to drive a manual is to buy one)
I've heard a lot about brokers caring about tractor age, and some companies do too. Very annoying, because otherwise I love what the old trucks offer.


I've been considering the newer internationals with S13s because I've been driving a day cab one at work and been impressed with the mileage (8.5 in a draggy day cab at 70 mph). But they guzzle DEF, and DEF costs money, so effectively... cost wise, it's kinda like having a 7.5mpg? It accelerates to 40mph unusually fast and well, gets to top speed half a mile before the DD13 freightliners that are also used here.

I've heard numbers like "11" thrown around for the sleepers doing normal things. That's insane.

There are some 20,000 mile used trucks at like $130k, but the down payment on that is just a bit higher than I'm ready to throw out right now. I could do $8k, maybe 10. Everybody wants 20% down apparently now so that puts me at like.... $50k budget I guess?
Went to a dealership with the 35 year authority O/O mentoring me and the last time he'd gotten a tractor, you could get one with nothing down. He walked out stunned by what has happened to financing since the 2020s began.


I think lonestars are awesome looking trucks and I was disappointed to learn they are out of production. I'm just not a huge fan of the Cummins X15. I've never driven a truck that used them, but everything I hear about them is super contradictory, and I don't like the rebuild cost of ANYTHING I see except old 12.7 60 series detroits. But if it's profitable, I'd love one. I just don't know how I can literally acquire one from where I am right now. Them T680s are the lowest mile, sub 5 year old trucks I was aware I could actually acquire without going to a goofy lease purchase business model selling organs to make the monthly truck payment

I think I've seen every type of tractor I've ever driven catastrophically fail... fleet maintenance!

 

2019 INTERNATIONAL LONESTAR For Sale in Norfolk, Nebraska | www.cornhuskerinternational.com 2019 INTERNATIONAL LONESTAR For Sale in Norfolk, Nebraska

Here ya go. One example of what they have. They also honor the warranty at this dealer. As for the X15 its because there is more then one MODEL of X15. Combine that with many fleets loving to lug the poor things to death and you take a good engine and murder it so you have good ones and bad ones.

Also see the passenger side cargo door? Usually if they look like that they have the built in EPU. Its also under 500k a 2019 (they have a 2022 as well with i think 400k) and only 70K out the door. So should be fine on year. Its a midroof so it can do anything you can throw at it flatbed or van without too big a hit either direction and you can always install a wing if its used for van a lot. And it should be pretty easy to fiance. If you need help i have a guy who contracts out to a TON of small banks and can get you a good deal.on stuff. Cost is a tiny bit higher then a traditional bank but rates are fair.

Basically, just shop around. And dont be afraid to buy out of state. You pay the taxes where you tag it.

 

12.7 Detroit would be probably one of the best engines you could have especially if you’re looking for mpg and reliability. One thing I noticed in most of your posts is your high mpg estimates. Problem is in my experience that doesn’t usually happen with high paying loads. I assume that you will be looking at open deck or rgn stuff if you’re going to be getting 2.80 per mile average and i think you’re going to be really lucky to get 6mpg average doing this work regardless of the truck pulling it. You will also find that how you drive will have as much or more to do with mpg than any other single factor. I can get 3 ish pulling a hopper loaded one way when I’m trying to keep a combine moving or 6-7 hauling to the terminal and not really caring about getting 1 more load that day….same truck same trailer same load same driver different priorities

 

Those are really close by, I'm out of Sioux Falls. I did not realise lonestars could be had that low.

I actually haven't ever done flatbed before, and would be starting in dry van/reefer. That's gonna be one of the annoying things to learn, it hasn't naturally been something I've been able to go learn in my career so far.

RGN is something I'm really interested in, because I'd love to do military loads hauling MTVRs, FMTVs, M113s, whatever during the summers when all the Natty Guard and Reserve units have their annual trainings. There'd be nothing funnier than pulling up to my own unit to pick up a load.

For fuel efficiency, what I WANT to do is find a chart of RPMs, horsepower, torque loading, etc against fuel mileage so that, at any given load weight, I can find a relatively accurate and precise TRUE best fuel mileage. Those kinds of charts exist and are everywhere for aviation, but I've never run into them in trucking. All I ever hear is "just go 62 mph", which is simple and works, but isn't the whole story. I know the information exists... somewhere...
But yeah I do not expect 8 MPG flatbed, or with a heavy reefer load.

My fuel efficiency estimates have been based on what I've seen at work with some particularly fuel efficient tractors and lightweight dry van loads. For instance, mail hauling. The loads are always super lightweight and sometimes in the winter out here, I've heard the rates go up like crazy because they're super inflexibile about time of departure and delivery and the road might not quite be closed, but it is absolutely a challenge to get there safely at exactly 11pm when ND/SD DOT isn't out clearing the roads yet.

Part of my problem is that I can't go sign up for USPS or Amazon Relay or a million other things and actually look directly at loads until I have a tractor and a DOT number and insurance. I think going it alone on a brand new authority is a bad idea without $30,000 to burn. I REALLY want to avoid that and lease on to a carrier with some sort of non broker consistent freight. Currently, that's dry van and reefer around where I am. They supply the trailers, so I think that's the best way to start power only. Power only on the load board with no alternatives... man. It'd be grim.

 

This is the first month In probably 10 years I’ve done anywhere close 10,000 miles, and thrilled to be up over 6mpg in the flatter land

I shopped insurance last year and got mine down to 20ish, I doubt you’ll get anywhere near that with new authority, never mind less.

regularly averaged 38-40k under the truck since I’ve had it, pre emissions truck In cash, hurts less when you have to sit at home instead of work cheap, but once you get established with 52 weeks a year brand new is the way to go, never buy a used emissions truck, I still average 45-46 but k can usually plan when I take time off to put the truck in the shop

Also don’t forget the wild cards, I got hit head on last year and lost 8 week to that alone

I don’t get the whole escrow thing, I just have a separate checking account

the trailers is what makes you money, not the truck…. Truck is just a necessary evil

honestly 80k is a good number, I plan for the worst and hope for the best but in my mind every time I pull 4th of July pass at 4 am with 60k in the wagon I’m blowing the engine up with a tow and getting arrested all at the same time, never quite been that bad but 50k goes quick as I do know in the last year and a half with 2 accidents and a motor

 

Here’s just a months fed/ss/state tax.

 

For fuel economy It all is in the details of the engine and RAR. You will need to match the RPM's with the torque curve to max all MPG's. It is pretty easy to understand if you get the math for that engine and set up. Most engines have a different torque and HP curve based off what spec they programed into it. So the Volvo D13 has many kinds of programs for HP and Torque for this example. This is a good example. https://www.volvotrucks.us/media/vt...147-101-volvo-d13-engine-brochure-low-res.pdf

 

I simply like the fact you're actually crunching the numbers. Continue.